Books copyright protected in US but not Canada - Page 4

HarryT · 03-21-2010, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostHawk

Second, how many authors are self published, big name stuff?
They all sell those rights to publishers. So Publishers would be in the hot seat, deciding if they can make enough off the books to be worth paying the extension. Their choice, go or no go, will it pay or won't it?

No, authors do not "sell" their copyright rights to publishers. They sign publishing contracts with publishers; the copyright remains very firmly in the hands of the author.

Iphinome · 03-21-2010, 05:54 AM

Harry, I've never read a publishing contract for a novel so I can't be certain but a quick google turned this up for scholarly journals. http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/copyright.asp it does ask that authors assign copyright to the publisher though it doesn't demand it. And outside the book world we know it has been standard in the past in music or it would be Paul McCartney getting royalties for Hey Jude not Michael Jackson's estate. This link http://www.copylaw.com/new_articles/copyterm.html seems to hint that assigning copyright was common in the past (I don't know about now.) I do wonder how those contracts handled derivative works, in comic books it seems the publishers kept rights to that given how old Superman is but in novels it'd be interesting to find out if an author could shop a sequel elsewhere or prevent one not written by him/her if the publisher wanted to produce one.

Edit. Link on reclaiming copyright after 56 years is in no way an endorsement by me of copyrights that last longer than 56 years.

HarryT · 03-21-2010, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iphinome

Harry, I've never read a publishing contract for a novel so I can't be certain but a quick google turned this up for scholarly journals. http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/copyright.asp it does ask that authors assign copyright to the publisher though it doesn't demand it.

True, but it's absolutely not done for book publishing. I do speak from personal experience.

Iphinome · 03-21-2010, 06:23 AM

Could you tell us what rights are assigned then? And for how long? At what opint if any can the deal be backed out of by one party? I'm not being confrontational I'd just really like to know that information, I was reading Lynn Abby's blog and she seems limited in what she has the right to put on closed circle (and dammit I was really hoping to not have to scan rise and fall of a dragon king myself.)

HarryT · 03-21-2010, 06:27 AM

A publishing contract is either "exclusive" - meaning that the publisher has the sole right to distribute the book in a particular country or part of the world - or "non-exclusive", meaning that the author is free to also sell to other publishers (eg Baen always have non-exclusive, world-wide rights on a book). A contract may or may not include eBook publishing rights. In addition, a contract (especially for a new author) may give the publisher "first refusal" on further books from that author for a specified period of time (or a specified number of future books). But in all this, the actual copyright is retained by the author.

Opt-out clauses are very much a matter of the individual contract, but the publisher, for example, may have the right to withdraw from the contract in the event of poor sales.

Iphinome · 03-21-2010, 06:47 AM

But how long is the contract? Till the copyright expires? A number of years? Number of printings?

HarryT · 03-21-2010, 06:51 AM

Depends entirely on the individual contract. 3 years or 5 years would be typical.

GhostHawk · 03-21-2010, 09:37 AM

My mistake sir.
I bow to your superior knowledge.

captcrouton · 03-21-2010, 09:36 PM

So back to Canada, I think the deal is this. Make a list of the books that are public domain there. Next time you fly through, open up your netbook, download the lot of them and go on with life.

We're abiding by the law in both countries, in my estimation. It's not illegal to download there, and not illegal to own it here.

I'm flying through on Wednesday. Any recommendations?

DawnFalcon · 03-21-2010, 09:41 PM

Again, the moment you make a copy, including incidental copies used in displaying the file, oops, offence.

pietvo · 03-22-2010, 09:53 AM

I don't believe that. Because if that would be true, it would also be the case for ebooks that you have legally bought. What if you bought a copy of one of the out of copyright ebooks in Canada? That would be silly if you can download them for free, but it would be legal. I don't see any difference with legally buying an ebook in your own country that is still in copyright. You would have the right to read it, although reading includes making incidental copies. I don't know the details of the law in the USA (and that's what we're talking about), but in the Dutch law the making of incidental copies like copying from hard disk to memory, of from memory to your screen is explicitely not a copyright violation.

DawnFalcon · 03-22-2010, 01:46 PM

Nope, if it's an authorised copy then there are explicit clauses in the various laws for "transient copies" to be automatically authorised. These do not, however, apply to an unauthorised copy!

The EUCD is as clear as the DMCA on this.

View Poll Results: Copyright violation?
Yes, it is a copyright violation even though the IP isn't protected in Canada and the source is Canadian.	15	24.59%
It is not a violation.	28	45.90%
Not sure	18	29.51%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

03-21-2010, 05:54 AM	#47
Iphinome Paladin of Eris Posts: 3,119 Karma: 20849349 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: USAland Device: Kindle 10	Harry, I've never read a publishing contract for a novel so I can't be certain but a quick google turned this up for scholarly journals. http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/copyright.asp it does ask that authors assign copyright to the publisher though it doesn't demand it. And outside the book world we know it has been standard in the past in music or it would be Paul McCartney getting royalties for Hey Jude not Michael Jackson's estate. This link http://www.copylaw.com/new_articles/copyterm.html seems to hint that assigning copyright was common in the past (I don't know about now.) I do wonder how those contracts handled derivative works, in comic books it seems the publishers kept rights to that given how old Superman is but in novels it'd be interesting to find out if an author could shop a sequel elsewhere or prevent one not written by him/her if the publisher wanted to produce one. Edit. Link on reclaiming copyright after 56 years is in no way an endorsement by me of copyrights that last longer than 56 years. Last edited by Iphinome; 03-21-2010 at 05:58 AM. Reason: postscript

03-21-2010, 06:27 AM	#50
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	A publishing contract is either "exclusive" - meaning that the publisher has the sole right to distribute the book in a particular country or part of the world - or "non-exclusive", meaning that the author is free to also sell to other publishers (eg Baen always have non-exclusive, world-wide rights on a book). A contract may or may not include eBook publishing rights. In addition, a contract (especially for a new author) may give the publisher "first refusal" on further books from that author for a specified period of time (or a specified number of future books). But in all this, the actual copyright is retained by the author. Opt-out clauses are very much a matter of the individual contract, but the publisher, for example, may have the right to withdraw from the contract in the event of poor sales. Last edited by HarryT; 03-21-2010 at 06:30 AM.

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03-21-2010, 06:23 AM	#49
Iphinome Paladin of Eris Posts: 3,119 Karma: 20849349 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: USAland Device: Kindle 10	Could you tell us what rights are assigned then? And for how long? At what opint if any can the deal be backed out of by one party? I'm not being confrontational I'd just really like to know that information, I was reading Lynn Abby's blog and she seems limited in what she has the right to put on closed circle (and dammit I was really hoping to not have to scan rise and fall of a dragon king myself.)

03-21-2010, 06:47 AM	#51
Iphinome Paladin of Eris Posts: 3,119 Karma: 20849349 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: USAland Device: Kindle 10	But how long is the contract? Till the copyright expires? A number of years? Number of printings?

03-21-2010, 06:51 AM	#52
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Depends entirely on the individual contract. 3 years or 5 years would be typical.

03-21-2010, 09:37 AM	#53
GhostHawk Data Privateer! Posts: 586 Karma: 62887 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Fargo ND Device: Ectaco Jetbook& Jetbook Lite	My mistake sir. I bow to your superior knowledge.

03-21-2010, 09:36 PM	#54
captcrouton Connoisseur Posts: 63 Karma: 84 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Kyiv, Ukraine Device: Kindle 2	So back to Canada, I think the deal is this. Make a list of the books that are public domain there. Next time you fly through, open up your netbook, download the lot of them and go on with life. We're abiding by the law in both countries, in my estimation. It's not illegal to download there, and not illegal to own it here. I'm flying through on Wednesday. Any recommendations?

03-21-2010, 09:41 PM	#55
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	Again, the moment you make a copy, including incidental copies used in displaying the file, oops, offence.

03-22-2010, 09:53 AM	#56
pietvo Reader Posts: 519 Karma: 24612 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Utrecht, NL Device: Kobo Aura 2, iPhone, iPad	I don't believe that. Because if that would be true, it would also be the case for ebooks that you have legally bought. What if you bought a copy of one of the out of copyright ebooks in Canada? That would be silly if you can download them for free, but it would be legal. I don't see any difference with legally buying an ebook in your own country that is still in copyright. You would have the right to read it, although reading includes making incidental copies. I don't know the details of the law in the USA (and that's what we're talking about), but in the Dutch law the making of incidental copies like copying from hard disk to memory, of from memory to your screen is explicitely not a copyright violation.

03-22-2010, 01:46 PM	#57
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	Nope, if it's an authorised copy then there are explicit clauses in the various laws for "transient copies" to be automatically authorised. These do not, however, apply to an unauthorised copy! The EUCD is as clear as the DMCA on this.