Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > News

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-14-2023, 01:30 AM   #16
Taubin
Barely a reader
Taubin began at the beginning.
 
Taubin's Avatar
 
Posts: 17
Karma: 10
Join Date: Apr 2010
Device: Kobo Clara 2e
I've noticed the same with my local library (not in the US). A lot of titles on Overdrive are available only in audiobook format. Even books that were recently available have disappeared and are now audiobook only. It's quite frustrating. I enjoy audiobooks sometimes, but definitely prefer e-books instead.
Taubin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2023, 06:40 AM   #17
John F
Grand Sorcerer
John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,158
Karma: 63764653
Join Date: Feb 2009
Device: Kobo Glo HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg View Post
This is why the library eBook prices are reasonably much higher than paper.

Where I used to live, they renovated, about four years ago, the 30,000 volume physical public library for US$3 million -- about $100 a book.

Where I now live, a new showplace 53,000 volume replacement town library opened this year at a cost of US$21.7 million -- $409 a book!

These libraries do a lot more than warehouse books. The showplace has English as a Second Language (ESL) classrooms. Still, at least half of it is a traditional library. And the cost of housing and circulating a physical book is a lot more than initial real estate costs.

I haven't run the numbers but believe there's a case for eBooks being cheaper than paper, adding up all library operating costs, even at current publisher prices. If not, Connecticut has the option of asking residents to go back to borrowing in person.
Although that $100 and $409 numbers look like a lot, aren't you missing a variable? Time? Those renovations will hopefully last for many years, let's say 20 years? Let's say the pbook needs to be replaced three times, so $409/20 + 3*$30/20= $24.95 a year, vs an ebook at $60 a year?
John F is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 12-14-2023, 08:05 AM   #18
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 73,927
Karma: 128903250
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taubin View Post
I've noticed the same with my local library (not in the US). A lot of titles on Overdrive are available only in audiobook format. Even books that were recently available have disappeared and are now audiobook only. It's quite frustrating. I enjoy audiobooks sometimes, but definitely prefer e-books instead.
eBooks can expire and audiobooks seen not to expire. or if a book is not available as an eBook, it may be available as an audiobook.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2023, 09:24 AM   #19
SteveEisenberg
Grand Sorcerer
SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,032
Karma: 39379388
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: near Philadelphia USA
Device: Kindle Kids Edition, Fire HD 10 (11th generation)
Quote:
Originally Posted by John F View Post
Although that $100 and $409 numbers look like a lot, aren't you missing a variable? Time? Those renovations will hopefully last for many years, let's say 20 years? Let's say the pbook needs to be replaced three times, so $409/20 + 3*$30/20= $24.95 a year, vs an ebook at $60 a year?
I was missing a lot of variables.

There are building maintenance and repair costs. Utility bills. Fire insurance. And forgone property taxes, since our town's library is at a prime location. All these would be much higher if the library was expanded to house paper replacements for eBooks.

While both eBooks and paper books require an acquisitions librarian, staff salary and pension costs associated with physical books are much higher.

Then there are legal costs such as if a patron slipped and fell on a loose carpet in the stacks. In Connecticut, this might be balanced against the legal costs of suing publishers to try to get your eBooks for less. No such balancing needed in Pennsylvania.

Last edited by SteveEisenberg; 12-14-2023 at 09:28 AM.
SteveEisenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2023, 12:38 PM   #20
John F
Grand Sorcerer
John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,158
Karma: 63764653
Join Date: Feb 2009
Device: Kobo Glo HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg View Post
I was missing a lot of variables.

There are building maintenance and repair costs. Utility bills. Fire insurance. And forgone property taxes, since our town's library is at a prime location. All these would be much higher if the library was expanded to house paper replacements for eBooks.

While both eBooks and paper books require an acquisitions librarian, staff salary and pension costs associated with physical books are much higher.

Then there are legal costs such as if a patron slipped and fell on a loose carpet in the stacks. In Connecticut, this might be balanced against the legal costs of suing publishers to try to get your eBooks for less. No such balancing needed in Pennsylvania.
Well, I thought my 20 years and $30 for pbooks was being generous. I look forward to your more detailed cost analysis.
John F is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 12-14-2023, 03:32 PM   #21
Sarmat89
Evangelist
Sarmat89 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sarmat89 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sarmat89 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sarmat89 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sarmat89 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sarmat89 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sarmat89 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sarmat89 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sarmat89 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sarmat89 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sarmat89 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 482
Karma: 2267928
Join Date: Nov 2015
Device: none
eBook publishers save a ton of money for libraries by not having them to move around the deadwood, but still those freeloaders complain....
Sarmat89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2023, 04:22 PM   #22
SteveEisenberg
Grand Sorcerer
SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,032
Karma: 39379388
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: near Philadelphia USA
Device: Kindle Kids Edition, Fire HD 10 (11th generation)
Quote:
Originally Posted by John F View Post
Well, I thought my 20 years and $30 for pbooks was being generous. I look forward to your more detailed cost analysis.
I could be more detailed, but not more accurate.

Regarding your method of looking at the paper book cost apart from overall library budgeting, the processing cost and librarian salary for adding the book, such a barcoding and cataloging, should be included. Depending on how fast that librarian works, this may easily be more than the cost of the book. However, it we look at it from a budget standpoint, all cost are included.

The operating expense budget for my 53,000 volume public library, minus contribution to the county eBook collection ($15,000), and fines ($12,100) -- excluded because there's no fine revenue from eBooks -- was $927,900 for 2022. This does NOT include anything for the building fund or major maintenance or, since we do not do it, suing publishers. This particular library does more in the way of non-lending-related literacy promotion than most, including English language and U.S. citizenship classes, so I do have to hold out a lot of the budget there. My guesstimate is that it costs maybe $11 a book per year just to sit on the shelf. Capital costs -- initially building the library and then having multi-million dollar major maintenance and renovation projects every so many years -- are much bigger than routine operating expenses just mentioned.

Libraries with outdated crowded facilities, deferred major maintenance, and volunteer labor, surely have much lower costs per paper book per year. They might then reasonably decide to spend less on eBooks. And libraries with high real estate and labor costs -- think New York, Los Angeles, and Singapore -- might reasonably see eBooks as a bargain. The cities just mentioned do have excellent eBook collections, so maybe I am not the only one thinking this way.

As a reader, I don't consider pressuring the major publishers to lower their prices to be a freebee. With less revenue, they will publish fewer books, reduce the quality of editing, or lower advances. This means less good reading for me.

Last edited by SteveEisenberg; 12-14-2023 at 04:25 PM.
SteveEisenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2023, 04:39 PM   #23
John F
Grand Sorcerer
John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,158
Karma: 63764653
Join Date: Feb 2009
Device: Kobo Glo HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg View Post
I could be more detailed, but not more accurate.

Regarding your method of looking at the paper book cost apart from overall library budgeting, the processing cost and librarian salary for adding the book, such a barcoding and cataloging, should be included. Depending on how fast that librarian works, this may easily be more than the cost of the book. However, it we look at it from a budget standpoint, all cost are included.

The operating expense budget for my 53,000 volume public library, minus contribution to the county eBook collection ($15,000), and fines ($12,100) -- excluded because there's no fine revenue from eBooks -- was $927,900 for 2022. This does NOT include anything for the building fund or major maintenance or, since we do not do it, suing publishers. This particular library does more in the way of non-lending-related literacy promotion than most, including English language and U.S. citizenship classes, so I do have to hold out a lot of the budget there. My guesstimate is that it costs maybe $11 a book per year just to sit on the shelf. Capital costs -- initially building the library and then having multi-million dollar major maintenance and renovation projects every so many years -- are much bigger than routine operating expenses just mentioned.

Libraries with outdated crowded facilities, deferred major maintenance, and volunteer labor, surely have much lower costs per paper book per year. They might then reasonably decide to spend less on eBooks. And libraries with high real estate and labor costs -- think New York, Los Angeles, and Singapore -- might reasonably see eBooks as a bargain. The cities just mentioned do have excellent eBook collections, so maybe I am not the only one thinking this way.

As a reader, I don't consider pressuring the major publishers to lower their prices to be a freebee. With less revenue, they will publish fewer books, reduce the quality of editing, or lower advances. This means less good reading for me.
So, using your numbers, it looks like pbokks are up to $35 dollars a year, and eBooks are more then $60, assuming some additional costs for eBooks.
John F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2023, 02:55 AM   #24
crich70
Grand Sorcerer
crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
crich70's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,305
Karma: 43993832
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monroe Wisconsin
Device: K3, Kindle Paperwhite, Calibre, and Mobipocket for Pc (netbook)
It would be nice if someone would do something about how expensive it is for the consumer sometimes to purchase an ebook. I mean I can understand the cost of the pbook. There is the cost of paper and ink, storage in warehouses, cost to transport the product from the publisher to the warehouse and then from the warehouse to the book store (not to mention the wages of the people who print the books up) but none of that applies with ebooks and yet they are either just as expensive or more so than the paper book versions in a lot of cases.
crich70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2023, 02:58 AM   #25
crich70
Grand Sorcerer
crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
crich70's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,305
Karma: 43993832
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monroe Wisconsin
Device: K3, Kindle Paperwhite, Calibre, and Mobipocket for Pc (netbook)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
eBooks can expire and audiobooks seen not to expire. or if a book is not available as an eBook, it may be available as an audiobook.
I've had that happen. I put a hold on an ebook some yrs back. Before it got to my turn the book vanished. Either the time the library could have the book expired or too many people had borrowed it prior to me. Either way I never did get to read the book in question.
crich70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2023, 03:05 AM   #26
crich70
Grand Sorcerer
crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
crich70's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,305
Karma: 43993832
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monroe Wisconsin
Device: K3, Kindle Paperwhite, Calibre, and Mobipocket for Pc (netbook)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg View Post
I was missing a lot of variables.

There are building maintenance and repair costs. Utility bills. Fire insurance. And forgone property taxes, since our town's library is at a prime location. All these would be much higher if the library was expanded to house paper replacements for eBooks.

While both eBooks and paper books require an acquisitions librarian, staff salary and pension costs associated with physical books are much higher.

Then there are legal costs such as if a patron slipped and fell on a loose carpet in the stacks. In Connecticut, this might be balanced against the legal costs of suing publishers to try to get your eBooks for less. No such balancing needed in Pennsylvania.
Not to mention that the more paper books your average library has the more the structure of the building has to be supported in order for the building to remain standing. Some yrs back the old clinic building in my town was purchased by a couple and donated to the city to be a new library building (the old one had become too small) and construction crews were many months in preparing it for the task. It wasn't just that interior walls had to be taken out to open up the space. The floors hadn't been constructed with the object of supporting as much weight as hundreds of paper books, shelves, etc. would add to them. So modifications (I don't know the details) had to be made just in order to be certain that it would be safe for people to enter the building. At present they are doing some additional refurbishment (making quiet areas etc.) but even before that we had Cd's, Records, Microfilm viewers, Computers, books etc. all of which add weight onto the structure.
crich70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2023, 08:23 AM   #27
Renate
Wizard
Renate ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Renate ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Renate ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Renate ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Renate ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Renate ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Renate ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Renate ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Renate ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Renate ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Renate ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,289
Karma: 9599999
Join Date: Feb 2012
Device: Nook NST, Glow2, 3, 4, '21, Kobo Aura2, Poke3, Poke5
Yeah, I've noticed more books vanishing lately.

But I'd also like to beef about the promise of digital books.
Just try to find a 20th century book; they're not there.
I thought the point of digital was this "long tail"?
Probably a lot more people want a Patterson than a book from 50 years ago, but can't we have both?
Renate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2023, 08:50 AM   #28
dandelioncottage
Abibliophobe
dandelioncottage ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dandelioncottage ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dandelioncottage ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dandelioncottage ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dandelioncottage ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dandelioncottage ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dandelioncottage ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dandelioncottage ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dandelioncottage ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dandelioncottage ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dandelioncottage ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
dandelioncottage's Avatar
 
Posts: 421
Karma: 4333638
Join Date: Dec 2010
Device: iPad Mini 2 64 gb, Nook Glowlight, iPad 4 (128 gb)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renate View Post
Yeah, I've noticed more books vanishing lately.

But I'd also like to beef about the promise of digital books.
Just try to find a 20th century book; they're not there.
I thought the point of digital was this "long tail"?
Probably a lot more people want a Patterson than a book from 50 years ago, but can't we have both?
Some 20th century authors have benefited, though. Margery Sharp is back (in digital format), thanks to Open Road Media and Dean Street Press. (I distinctly remember when my library weeded her books, because I bought the entire box at a library book sale!)
dandelioncottage is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
One or three libraries? msel Library Management 4 11-13-2021 11:08 AM
Copying books between libraries where MANY libraries exist tomwitt Library Management 1 06-01-2020 06:24 PM
Multiple Libraries v Virtual Libraries Inukami Library Management 13 09-29-2019 02:39 PM
UK libraries feenix1363 General Discussions 96 05-06-2012 07:26 AM
PRS-T1 Using two libraries on the T1 Avwriter Sony Reader 1 10-12-2011 04:10 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:37 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.