Apple software update kills "hacked" iPhones

[JSWolf]

What I wonder is if the kid who unload the iPhone has an unlocked phone after the firmware update. He did it by opening the phone and some sort of soldering.

[NatCh]

All analogies break down at some point, it can't be helped.

Originally Posted by Harpgliss

... people who installed software that was not designed to run on the Iphone accept that bad things could happen to it from either bad software or an update from Apple.

Point, and a very good one. If that's as far as it went, and assuming that it wasn't deliberately meant to cause "bad things," I'd agree with you entirely.

The part I have a problem with is where they evidently are deliberately damaging a phone that has simply been unlocked. A very common, perfectly legal, and not even slightly unreasonable action.

Originally Posted by Harpgliss

I understand Sony is this way with the PSP updates for their firmware also.

Yup, and they're notorious for it (though I should note they haven't followed the same pattern with the Reader ). However, on the PSP updates, Sony just disables the hacks and closes the holes they were made through. They don't cause the PSP to cease to function. And they're not targeting units that say, have non-Sony peripherals connected to them (there's not really a similar aspect to locking in any other industry).

Originally Posted by Harpgliss

I just feel if you did the unlock thing when it was not supported from Apple, you took a chance it would break the phone.

See the unlocking isn't so much adding as it is removing. I started to say that no handset manufacturer supported unlocking, but that's not so, acutally -- every handset manufacturer supports both locking and unlocking. Otherwise they couldn't be used by multiple carriers. Unless Apple wants to claim that they never, ever intend to do business with any other carrier, they can't claim their handset doesn't support unlocking. In fact, the fact that it can be unlocked is an undeniable indication that the thing does, in fact, support unlocking -- the detail that they don't want us doing it isn't really relevant to that point.

Apple apparently has some sort of exclusivity agreement with AT&T, presumably for some period of time, and they're trying to force everyone who buys their handset to go along with that plan.

Usually those exclusivity agreements include a subsidy, but all concerned insist that there isn't one. I can only assume that the reason that the agreement exists is that AT&T pays Apple for each iPhone subscriber (whereas, Verizon, say, doesn't), so Apple is trying to force its customers to use the service that gives it kickbacks. In another setting that would be considered corruption. Here it's just aggressive marketing.

However, if they've deliberately targeted those who bought their handsets legally and without contractual obligation, who unlocked their phones (again, a common and very legal practice here in the U.S.) because they wanted to go with another carrier, then I think they've crossed a big, bold, brutally obvious line, and I don't think they've got any standing there.

They've probably just blocked a bunch of folks from being able to use the phone service they've paid for, remember -- it's not too difficult to think of situations where that could cause pretty serious harm, so any civil damages could get ... significant.

[Studio717]

I have an iPhone (not modded) and it upgraded fine. Not only did Apple send out a press release ahead of time about the possibility of bricking a modded phone, they also had a warning dialogue box at the beginning of the upgrade process that you had to click through. So, imo, anyone who went ahead with the upgrade process knew what they were doing.

Apparently, modding the iPhone is against the EULA. Also, from reading the gadget blogs (and not from personal experience), one kind of unlocking will only get negated, it won't brick the iPhone, just make it only work with an AT&T sim. Another kind will indeed brick the iPhone. An 3rd-party apps don't work anymore, but - again, from what I've read - they don't brick the iPhone, either.

I have no problem with someone wishing to mod their iPhone if they want to, but they also know going in that it isn't sanctioned and that Bad Things Can Happen.

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by Studio717

Apparently, modding the iPhone is against the EULA.

Even if it is, a software unlock shouldn't qualify as a mod, any more than entering your contact numbers should -- it's flipping a switch that's built into the device.

Originally Posted by Studio717

Also, from reading the gadget blogs (and not from personal experience), one kind of unlocking will only get negated, it won't brick the iPhone, just make it only work with an AT&T sim. Another kind will indeed brick the iPhone. An 3rd-party apps don't work anymore, but - again, from what I've read - they don't brick the iPhone, either.

If that's the case, then that's probably fine -- even if re-locking the phone is a bit obnoxious. As long as the software unlock works again after the upgrade, then there's no real harm done. If not ... then they're itchin' for a lawsuit.

[Studio717]

Originally Posted by NatCh

...

If that's the case, then that's probably fine -- even if re-locking the phone is a bit obnoxious. As long as the software unlock works again after the upgrade, then there's no real harm done.

...

From what Erica Sadun has written over on TUAW:

5 things you need to know about the iphone 1.1.1 update

It might be a while before any more unlocking and/or modding is being done.

[JSWolf]

Apple is doing a great job of pissing off customers. Way to go Apple.

[Studio717]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Apple is doing a great job of pissing off customers. Way to go Apple.

Some customers. I love my Apple hoard.

[petermillard]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Apple is doing a great job of pissing off customers. Way to go Apple.

Seems like there are way more non-Apple customers who are pissed off at Apple for this.

Most of the comments I've seen on the boards run along the lines of '...it's not fair... I wouldn't buy one even if they ever get to be available here!' but people need to get real; during the 'Sermon on the Mount' - sorry, the iPhone launch - Steve Jobs said, loud and clear, 'no third party apps'; surely, given the amount of media attention iPhone has had, anyone who bought one (or two!) cannot have been in any way ignorant of exactly what they were buying - and what they can and cannot do with it.

Of course, if you buy something it's yours; you can do what you like with it. But that doesn't mean I'm going to fill up my petrol-engined Mercedes with diesel just because I can, even though people said I shouldn't. A certain level of common sense is generally required to maintain what we call 'a life'.

I quite fancy a Sony Reader, but as I'm in the UK I can't buy one without ( I believe) breaking the EULA, voiding the warranty, and jumping thorough all kinds of hoops to get onto the Sony Connect store. None of which, I'm prepared to do - though others on this board have, and I respect their reasons for doing so. AFAIK, Sony don't specifically advise you not to plug in their 110v charger into a 240v socket, but can you imagine their response if you tried to make a warranty claim for doing so, from a country where they don't distribute?

Apple have been voluble in advising people that the update might cause problems with iPhones that have been modded (even though such mods are apparently against the EULA); if people go ahead and perform the update anyway, then tough.

Apple told you they were going to tell you. They told you. Now they're telling you they told you.

FFS! You're adults; deal with it like adults (i.e. without running to your lawyers crying 'it's just not fair...') <shakes head in disbelief>

[JSWolf]

I'm not saying to run to a lawyer to sue Apple. The best way to get at Apple is to not buy any of their products.

I have read a lot of posts from people pissed at Apple for screwing them over (to paraphrase). First the price drop right away and now the firmware update. And this is from iPhone owners, not just people who don't own one.

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by petermillard

Seems like there are way more non-Apple customers who are pissed off at Apple for this.

I love it! And I quite agree about the extra apps. (I think it's a dumb move on their part, but they're allowed to be dumb. In U.S. civil courts dumbness seems to increase your likelihood of winning, more often that not.)

However, I still think they're out of line on the unlocking thing.

[Studio717]

Are any of those posts from people other than geeks? I doubt if most iPhone owners unlocked their phone or added on 3rd-party apps. My guess is that most iPhone owners updated with no problems and are enjoying the added features.

(Just imo, of course.)

[NatCh]

I'd guess you're right there, Studio717.

[petermillard]

Originally Posted by NatCh

...And I quite agree about the extra apps.... I think it's a dumb move on their part...

I regard iPhone as a work in progress; just because you can't get third-party apps right now, it doesn't mean you won't be able to download an Apple (or Apple approved) Outlook-compatible email client for iPhone from iTunes Store in future - or a notes app., Word, whatever - for a price, of course.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I'm not saying to run to a lawyer to sue Apple. The best way to get at Apple is to not buy any of their products.

Ahh, but that would be an awfully dull place without anyone buying Apple products; hard to imagine, actually, for all their faults

And yes, I agree; lawyers are best kept in their place - in court, suing each other

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by petermillard

And yes, I agree; lawyers are best kept in their place - in court, suing each other

Somehow, I misread that the first time, I thought it said "eating" instead of "suing" -- still made sense.

[IceHand]

Apple did a more or less similar thing with the new iPods: they made it extremely difficult to use them with anything different than iTunes. More information