Linux E-Readers

[db579]

I gather there are various linux based e-readers (kobo?) out there but I've not been able to work out what exactly that means.

Are there any running an unmodified mainline kernel and with root access that I could update the same way I do a regular computer? Can I install regular Linux applications like Foliate for reading ebooks or Xournal for note taking (if it supports a stylus)? Are there custom e-reader distributions?

Or are these all device specific kernels where updates are entirely dependent on how long the vendor supports a particular model?

[salamanderjuice]

It means eReaders that use Linux as their operating system, e.g. Kindle, Kobo, Remarkable. They don't give you root access out of the box, they don't run standard Linux applications out of the box and I'm pretty sure they don't use standard mainline kernel because usually these kinds of devices require some sort of binary blob driver for something.

Getting standard Linux applications on one depends on the device. Some like Kindle are more locked down. Others are a bit more open. None are really "open" like a standard PC linux distro.

The Remarkable 1 has been hacked to run a linux desktop recently.

It's actually easier to get an Android eInk device running desktop Linux applications through an X11 server and a proot than it is to get one up and running on most Linux eReaders.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by salamanderjuice

It means eReaders that use Linux as their operating system, e.g. Kindle, Kobo, Remarkable. They don't give you root access out of the box, they don't run standard Linux applications out of the box and I'm pretty sure they don't use standard mainline kernel because usually these kinds of devices require some sort of binary blob driver for something.

Odd, I could have sworn my Kobo ereaders give me root access out of the box. No jailbreaking, no rooting, no hacking needed. But what do I know after a decade or so of using Kobo ereaders?

[salamanderjuice]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Odd, I could have sworn my Kobo ereaders give me root access out of the box. No jailbreaking, no rooting, no hacking needed. But what do I know after a decade or so of using Kobo ereaders?

You can modify things especially when connected over USB, but that's not "root" in *nix sense.

Or are you telling me Kobo runs the user as root (in the unix sense) out of the box with no modifications required because frankly that sounds like a terrible idea for a WiFi enabled device?

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by salamanderjuice

You can modify things especially when connected over USB, but that's not "root" in *nix sense.

Or are you telling me Kobo runs the user as root (in the unix sense) out of the box with no modifications required because frankly that sounds like a terrible idea for a WiFi enabled device?

Have you ever opened an Telnet/SSH session to a Kobo ereader using either WiFi or USBNetwork? As for worrying about a WiFi connection? I seem to read about the seemingly endless desire of Kindle users to jailbreak their devices and Android owners to root their devices without worrying about any security issues. Given that most homes use a WiFi router that does not expose the devices to inbound connections, I'm not that worried about my Kobo device being hacked.

[salamanderjuice]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Have you ever opened an Telnet/SSH session to a Kobo ereader using either WiFi or USBNetwork? As for worrying about a WiFi connection? I seem to read about the seemingly endless desire of Kindle users to jailbreak their devices and Android owners to root their devices without worrying about any security issues. Given that most homes use a WiFi router that does not expose the devices to inbound connections, I'm not that worried about my Kobo device being hacked.

Can you do that with zero modification out of the box? No?

What I'm saying is, Kobo's don't run like you might expect standard Linux distros to. You can't kick up xterm out of the box and start installing emacs. Yeah, you can modify Kobo's I'm not arguing that.

[db579]

Ok so can I ssh in and run a command with sudo? Do I have bash? GCC?

What is the blocker to running regular software on it?

[PeterT]

Originally Posted by db579

Ok so can I ssh in and run a command with sudo? Do I have bash? GCC?



What is the blocker to running regular software on it?

Memory

Storage Space

(Not sure) Floating point

Remember while it might run a Linux kernel, it runs a customized environment more generally intended for an embedded device.

Many of the standard command line tools are implemented via busybox

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[salamanderjuice]

Originally Posted by PeterT

Memory

Storage Space

(Not sure) Floating point

Remember while it might run a Linux kernel, it runs a customized environment more generally intended for an embedded device.

Many of the standard command line tools are implemented via busybox

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

Yes, they are running the bare minimum software to get the job done. There is no frills like a package manager, GCC, etc. built-in.

If you want a full fledged Linux computer to play around with for cheap get a Raspberry Pi. You can even get eInk screens that you can mess around with stuff like paperterm that attach to the GPIO headers for not too much money depending on size.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by salamanderjuice

Can you do that with zero modification out of the box? No?

What I'm saying is, Kobo's don't run like you might expect standard Linux distros to. You can't kick up xterm out of the box and start installing emacs. Yeah, you can modify Kobo's I'm not arguing that.

Well, you can bring up the search, type "devmodeon" and then telnet to the device. Is that what you want?

Whether you can install emacs will depend on if there is suitable binaries. It doesn't have a compiler installed, and it probably wouldn't be fun to run one on such a low powered device. But, if binaries exist for whatever you want, they can be installed.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by salamanderjuice

Can you do that with zero modification out of the box? No?

What I'm saying is, Kobo's don't run like you might expect standard Linux distros to. You can't kick up xterm out of the box and start installing emacs. Yeah, you can modify Kobo's I'm not arguing that.

Hmmm... type devmodeon in the search box and telnet in.

And I wasn't aware that root access to Linux was predicated on running xterm or being able to install emacs. I do seem to recall that we were discussing root access before you tried to sidetrack into what packages were installed out of the box.

[Quoth]

Ereaders are like microwave ovens or a VHS. Most are intended purely for reading novels.
Some high end models with Android and ability to install an apk, or even enable google framework and playstore can run some Android applications.
Some Linux based ones have a limited ability to run user installed Linux programs, but due to RAM, Flash, eink and size it's rarely worth while.
I have totally unpatched Kobo ereaders, a Sony PRS-350, Kindle Keyboard 3 and PW3 all unmodified. I jail-broke a Kindle DXG out of curiosity but now only the sleep cover mod is installed.
The eink ereaders work well, unmodified, to read novels. I have a 10" Lenovo for technical stuff and bought a 7.8" eink Android Boyue Likebook Mars purely for the luxury of a built in Lending Library app, Borrowbox, though I have some other apps on it too. I used KOReader on it for badly formatted ebooks as it can override stupid and the stock reader app for scans of old novels as PDFs.

I use laptop, PC and server running linux.

[pazos]

They're linux ereaders in the sense they use the Linux kernel (not vanilla, vendor provided). Stock apps use the framebuffer directly (except Amazon, which has some sort of X). Binaries targetting the same ABI will work fine, except those that want to write something to the screen.

Any distro can be ported. The only change needed is including eink refresh routines into the fbdev X driver. Touchscreen should work out of the box.

The reason almost nobody is interested is because the input/output sucks to be used as a computer, with computer programs. They're also very limited in CPU power, have no GPU, no wired USB host mode and lack features you would expect on regular computers.

[salamanderjuice]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Hmmm... type devmodeon in the search box and telnet in.

And I wasn't aware that root access to Linux was predicated on running xterm or being able to install emacs. I do seem to recall that we were discussing root access before you tried to sidetrack into what packages were installed out of the box.

Okay, last time I looked into it, it required modifying system files to even enable telnet. There's not much point to doing it so I stopped caring about the time of the Kobo Mini. I was wrong. Sorry.

You kind of got sidetracked that it was so easy to get root access on a Kobo that you missed the main point of the thread IMO, and that's that eReaders running Linux don't really run Linux in the same way as a Ubuntu install or Fedora.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by salamanderjuice

eReaders running Linux don't really run Linux in the same way as a Ubuntu install or Fedora.

Close enough to debian for me for many purposes.

Although I'm puzzled by the desire to run arbitrary GUI apps on ereaders, I'm equally baffled by the lack of appreciation for CLI access. I enjoy being able to use the same tools on various devices at home and work as I use on general purpose computers at home and work.