Sony's new 13.3" digital paper DPTRP1 released

[ManDay]

Originally Posted by SnowRipple

I don't want to spam this thread, but I just saw video from Hongkong show from Onyx and it leaves new Sony e-reader way behind.

For a similar price you get so much more, mainly Android and possibility of a screen mirroring. The latency seems really nice as well.

Supporting only pdfs in 2017 is like a slap in the face for e-ink enthusiasts around the world.

How is the Onyx device offering "so much more"? What exactly is so much?

I rather think it's the other way around, as far as quality is concerned there is no way Onyx can compete with Sony. I know the Onyx devices (had an M92) and I can assert that their built quality is real bad, 100% plastic-rubber-housings with a software that is outright amateurish. For my experience with the M92, it witnessed two years of rather helpless software updates, each fixing up the bugs introduced by the previous and adding half-finished, buggy features in an awfully inconsistent user interface.

And from the looks of it, the 13.3 device sports just the newest iteration of that crap.

The DPT-S1, on the other hand, brilliant build quality with a lightweight aluminium or titanium alloy housing (the furnish was a bit sub-par though) and a software which is thought-out, consistent and was polished from the start. Sure, in the long run I wished for a few features that had not been there (screen mirroring, e-mail client, usb keyboard, etc.) but as far as the intended design was concerned, it had everything that was needed, with almost no bugs at all, right from the beginning. Plus, for the RP1 they seem to have added a lot of those features which I thought were missing in the DPT-S1.

Since my S1 is still running like on the first day, I don't see myself buying a RP1 anytime soon. But should I ever be tempted, for the higher resolution for example, I certainly wouldn't even think about going for the Onyx. Sony may have crappy customer support and weird retail channels and whatnot, but with this series of devices here, they are very much nailing it, flawlessly.

[SnowRipple]

Originally Posted by ManDay

How is the Onyx device offering "so much more"? What exactly is so much?

I rather think it's the other way around, as far as quality is concerned there is no way Onyx can compete with Sony. I know the Onyx devices (had an M92) and I can assert that their built quality is real bad, 100% plastic-rubber-housings with a software that is outright amateurish. For my experience with the M92, it witnessed two years of rather helpless software updates, each fixing up the bugs introduced by the previous and adding half-finished, buggy features in an awfully inconsistent user interface.

And from the looks of it, the 13.3 device sports just the newest iteration of that crap.

The DPT-S1, on the other hand, brilliant build quality with a lightweight aluminium or titanium alloy housing (the furnish was a bit sub-par though) and a software which is thought-out, consistent and was polished from the start. Sure, in the long run I wished for a few features that had not been there (screen mirroring, e-mail client, usb keyboard, etc.) but as far as the intended design was concerned, it had everything that was needed, with almost no bugs at all, right from the beginning. Plus, for the RP1 they seem to have added a lot of those features which I thought were missing in the DPT-S1.

Since my S1 is still running like on the first day, I don't see myself buying a RP1 anytime soon. But should I ever be tempted, for the higher resolution for example, I certainly wouldn't even think about going for the Onyx. Sony may have crappy customer support and weird retail channels and whatnot, but with this series of devices here, they are very much nailing it, flawlessly.

I had M92 and was really happy with it. Onyx provided continuos support and features with every new firmware release. However M92 is quite old device now and comparing it against RP1 or even S1 is unfair: they belong in different times completely. It's like comparing iphone 1 and 6: not fair.

I am a fan of a device's functionality not its looks, Onyx device build is more than sturdy. I don't really care about metal/glass finishes etc. - for me it's a device used for work not a bracelet to show of.

"Few features had not been there"? You mean it offered only ONE feature: pdf handling.

RP1 "added a lot of features"? Again: just PDF handling. No screen mirroring, email client, keyboard... These are features you can have with Onyx latest (and couple years old, e.g. M96) devices - it gives you perspective how far behind Sony is...

You ask what exactly is so much better with Onyx, I could list dozens of things but I will go with one word: Android. A system that let you install thousands of applications each offering multiple diverse features. But yeah, pay for the label...

[Agent69]

Originally Posted by LarryNYC

Have they dropped the microSD support in the new model?

IIRC, the did remove the microSD card, but they also increased the internal storage to 16GB.

[LarryNYC]

Originally Posted by SnowRipple

I had M92 and was really happy with it. Onyx provided continuos support and features with every new firmware release. However M92 is quite old device now and comparing it against RP1 or even S1 is unfair: they belong in different times completely. It's like comparing iphone 1 and 6: not fair.

I am a fan of a device's functionality not its looks, Onyx device build is more than sturdy. I don't really care about metal/glass finishes etc. - for me it's a device used for work not a bracelet to show of.

"Few features had not been there"? You mean it offered only ONE feature: pdf handling.

RP1 "added a lot of features"? Again: just PDF handling. No screen mirroring, email client, keyboard... These are features you can have with Onyx latest (and couple years old, e.g. M96) devices - it gives you perspective how far behind Sony is...

You ask what exactly is so much better with Onyx, I could list dozens of things but I will go with one word: Android. A system that let you install thousands of applications each offering multiple diverse features. But yeah, pay for the label...

I just want something that does an excellent job of replacing paper, not something that runs thousands of applications. The Sony DPT-S1 does a brilliant job of replacing paper, and with increased resolution and a faster processor, the DPT-R1 will be even better.

Somebody on the DPT-S1 owner's thread complained about their experience with the Onyx. One of the things they mentioned is that they could only figure out how to write notes at the top of the page, I'm not sure if that is still true. The Sony lets me write notes all over a PDF document, something I use it for every day.

This person also complained that the drawing experience on the Onyx was flakey and that sometimes erasing something erased the last twenty seconds of their work. Drawing and erasing works well on the Sony, it is as close to a pencil as I have ever seen on a device.

By the way, the Sony DPT-S1 has an application that allows it to function as a whiteboard you can share with others, I think that is what you are referring to with regards to screen mirroring.

I'm ok with the Sony not having access to email, I have enough email on my phone, laptop, and desktop. The Sony does have an interface to Box.com so you can send documents there and share links to the documents. I paste my links into Slack. I try to avoid email as much as possible in my daily work.

There is enough room in the world for different kinds of devices. I'm glad to see that Sony is not abandoning the space.

[allochi]

I agree with ManDay, I used both Onyx and Sony, I find Sony much more stable and productive. Yes, it only reads PDF, I don't know when did Sony ever announced that DPT-S1 works with anything else than PDF?

The form factor, the weight, and the reliability of the DPT-S1 is unmatched by any similar device. And the software is superior to any of its class, has much more performance and responsiveness of anything competitors provide.

I think everybody reflect their own experience and satisfaction of their device of choice, you may "rofl" because DPT-S1 reads only PDF, but it does that really well.

When I used the Onyx, it used to crash a lot, and most of the Android applications did not work well on it, I did like it, and I did read a lot of books on it, but it was unstable, heavy and not as portable as I hoped it to be, when I replaced it with DPT-S1 it was a day and night difference, and I wouldn't go back.

It's not only the label, it's the quality and the design, and Sony do it better.

[allochi]

Funny, I was checking this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu03JY7PXMo

which suppose to be their best product, and they were highlighting text on a page, and it lags, while with the DPT-S1 highlighting and handwriting is instant, check it out here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLOoBibRmwY

[royconejo]

Originally Posted by SnowRipple

You ask what exactly is so much better with Onyx, I could list dozens of things but I will go with one word: Android. A system that let you install thousands of applications each offering multiple diverse features. But yeah, pay for the label...

Have in mind that Sony is oriented towards building a professional tool used in a production environment. It's not a toy for people who reads just for fun or have the time and patience to test which ones of 95% of apps in Google Play will hang or cause a device malfunction.

I really like Onxy and its "openness", the use of android and formats supported. I also had some problems with my Boox MAX and Booxtor support has been excellent (not so with the official support channels). But I simply cannot be a beta tester when I need the job done, for example taking notes in a meeting or going through lectures in college, etc. Tried several times before and Onyx products failed to give a 100% reliable experience.. and in a production environment you'll need no less. Onyx are excellent general purpose readers, but for serious work, I'll trust Sony and their professional oriented tools.

So, comparing this Sony tool with a Onyx MAX Carta or MAX 2 its like comparing apples and oranges.

Just my 2 cents

[ManDay]

Originally Posted by SnowRipple

RP1 "added a lot of features"? Again: just PDF handling. No screen mirroring, email client, keyboard...

Just for the record: Viewing documents side-by-side, a second button on the pen and cross-references within documents (of which I'm not entirely sure but as far as I understand is possible now) were, besides using it as a text processor with an external keyboard, the three top candidates on my wish list for the DPT-S1. And to what I can see, Sony has added them.

I might add:

It may surprise you, but viewing anything but PDFs (like epub) has actually never interested me much. I read a few ebooks on the Sony, but I even prefer to convert them to a PDF manually, that way I have more complete control over their looks (since I do it on the computer) and I'm able to annotate them. I can also readily automate the process and even automatically upload them into box. Classically, I'm in fact an opponent of PDF (c.f. "content-markup-mangling"), but for the purpose of having an annotatable, paper-like file format, I think they actually found a good niche in the Sony.

[T.W.G]

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

Interesting. It used to be the Japanese makers that were accused of being copycats.

Digital artist found dead in home. Details sketchy.

If you argue that way: EVERY nation around the world can be accused of being copycats: Industrial spying is not a new phenomena.

But there's a big difference between japanese and chinese products: Japanese care for quality and service... chinese don't.


@SnowRipple: Please, go buy your chinese toy with soooo many possibilites but inform yourself about the other products before posting wrong information! Otherwise you would know that the DPT-S1 indeed can show it's content on a PC-Monitor/Beamer.

[viceant]

I have to readers: a Sony and a Onyx Boox. I was happy with both: although Sony is more stable, it have had to restart it many times; Onyx, on the other hand, had many more options to configurate, more flexible.
I only regret have bought Onyx because it lacks an adequate post-sales support.

[Ghitulescu]

Originally Posted by Agent69

IIRC, the did remove the microSD card, but they also increased the internal storage to 16GB.

Another fatal mistake IMHO.

[David Munch]

Very happy to see that Sony isn't exiting the market on large eReaders. Sad to see that the price is still very high. I would only need it for reading PDF's on warm summer days outside, and I do think the price is a tad too high for me for only that purpose (Have an iPad for indoor PDF reading).

[LarryNYC]

Originally Posted by Ghitulescu

Another fatal mistake IMHO.

While I think it is unfortunate, I don't think it is a fatal mistake. I can live with the limitation in order to have a faster processor and higher resolution.

I'll just move less used PDF files to Box.com to stay within the memory limitation. 16GB will still hold a lot of PDFs.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by LarryNYC

16GB will still hold a lot of PDFs.

Yep - Sony quote 10,000 PDFs at 1MB each (which is typical for a business document). Those of us who have 300MB PDFs are of course slightly less fortunate . (That's why I bought a 256GB iPad.)

[Ghitulescu]

Originally Posted by LarryNYC

While I think it is unfortunate, I don't think it is a fatal mistake. I can live with the limitation in order to have a faster processor and higher resolution.

I'll just move less used PDF files to Box.com to stay within the memory limitation. 16GB will still hold a lot of PDFs.

You just mentioned why it's bad for the customers. The removal of memory card interfaces have nothing to do with the price, it's just an excuse. The real reason is the control upon the sources.