Online petition over library ebook embargo

[Tony1988]

How many copies of new books did library's usually carry before Ebooks??

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Tony1988

How many copies of new books did library's usually carry before Ebooks??

That depends on the book. Best sellers had more copies. But, there was another thing with books. If every library got just one copy and your library system had say 5 branches, that's 5 copies and they coul be borrowed at your local branch and would be delivered there when available. eBooks are for the entire library system. So if there's only one eBook copy, then that's all there is for everyone using Overdrive.

So if the wait time is too long for the eBook, more holds may be placed on the pBook and the eBook would sill not be purchased. What that then means is less sales because the libraries can only buy one copy of the eBook.

[issybird]

From the petition:

This embargo would limit libraries’ ability to provide access to information for all. It particularly harms library patrons with disabilities or learning issues. One of the great things about eBooks is that they can become large-print books with only a few clicks, and most eBook readers offer fonts and line spacing that make reading easier for people who have dyslexia or other visual challenges. Because portable devices are light and easy to hold, eBooks are easier to use for some people who have physical disabilities.

Here's the truth: Limiting access to new titles for libraries means limiting access for readers like you.

I'm just not feeling this; I certainly don't think it's the hill for libraries to die on.

We've had variations on this conversation before. Saying "wait eight weeks" is not at all the same as saying, "you can't have this ever." Playing the violins about disabled readers gets an eyeroll from me. The disabled as well as anyone else who wants to borrow a particular Macmillan book from OverDrive can read something else in the interim - perhaps even a book that came out eight weeks ago. Libraries have never worked on immediate access anyway, unless you were a combination of lucky and cunning.

Shrug. Ebooks are still a market in tremendous flux and I'm not surprised that the players are tinkering with their models. I don't think the Big Five are the Big Evil and my own ineradicable preference is for gateway publishing. I think the libraries are using up outrage that could be better directed at other areas, especially expiring licenses.

[leebase]

Is there a counter petition to sign? You can know the truth sometimes by just listening. How can it be that "the publisher is hurting themselves" and "the publisher isn't significant at all for the library" ---- and people want to sign a petition to force the publisher to change their policy?

I don't have a strong opinion about whether I think this is a good move for the publisher or not. Time will tell. And likely nobody will ever know except the publisher.

I love libraries...have had a strong connection since I as a kid...even if I don't currently use them.

However, I just don't see the necessity that libraries get just released fiction. It would be like complaining that my food pantry isn't handing out steaks. (gasp...did I just compare libraries to charities again?!).

I think we need to reevaluate what a library is. I have a hard time justifying public, tax payer funded institutions bullying a publisher to provide ebooks during the just released money making window.

And I really and sincerely doubt these major publishers have no clue how valuable libraries are to their business. But I could be wrong about that. The publishers could be wrong about that. If the libraries are RIGHT about that, the libraries have nothing to worry about. The publishers will see a drop in sales and realize they need to rethink their relationships to libraries.

The public actions of the libraries lead me to think they AREN'T right about this and know it. If libraries had a solid case about how helpful they are to the sales of books, that's all they'd need. They'd have their presentations and they'd make their pitches to the publishers directly without the public pressure. Just doesn't pass the smell test for me.

But I could be wrong (as if any post I ever write isn't in need of the same disclaimer)

[leebase]

Originally Posted by Tomk2

I have a whole list of e-books that I think I might like, but that I would not buy. Those are the kind of books I download from the library. The e-books that I know I want, I buy. If it turns out I really like them, I buy a hardcover to actually own. Library lending of e-books does not change what e-books I buy, but every now and then a borrowed e-book will generate a hardcover sale. If I have to wait too long for that e-book, any hardcover sale it generates will be a used on that does the publisher no good.

I think that if everyone had your habits, this wouldn't be an issue for the publisher. Myself, I never buy a book I've already read....well, perhaps not "never".

[Tomk2]

Originally Posted by leebase

I think that if everyone had your habits, this wouldn't be an issue for the publisher. Myself, I never buy a book I've already read....well, perhaps not "never".

It's a collection/hobby kind of thing. All hardcovers. Slowly acquiring all the hugo winners is one project, and otherwise a book has to be pretty good to earn a spot on what shelf space I have. There is pleasure in looking over the bookcase and remembering old reads. And if you can't quite recall a title, a quick thumb through it will bring it back. Ebooks aren't good for that.

Plus I truly believe that your bookshelf can reveal quite a bit about you as a person. I wouldnt dream of poking about someone's home I was in, but if you display your books I will definitely take a look!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Catlady]

If I can borrow a book, I'll wait as long as it takes, with rare exceptions. My local library, which, since its return to Overdrive, has been my best source for new releases, generally buys only one copy anyway.

I don't know how this embargo will improve sales for Macmillan, though. If a book has a long waiting list, chances are that at the end of the eight weeks, the library will buy multiple copies and the line will move along briskly. People who absolutely MUST have a book immediately are the ones who probably would have bought it anyway, the rest of us will just wait a bit longer.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by Tomk2

It's a collection/hobby kind of thing. All hardcovers. Slowly acquiring all the hugo winners is one project, and otherwise a book has to be pretty good to earn a spot on what shelf space I have. There is pleasure in looking over the bookcase and remembering old reads. And if you can't quite recall a title, a quick thumb through it will bring it back. Ebooks aren't good for that.

Plus I truly believe that your bookshelf can reveal quite a bit about you as a person. I wouldnt dream of poking about someone's home I was in, but if you display your books I will definitely take a look!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I hear you. I wish I had such a book shelf(s)...remember my bookshelves fondly. Buuut...not having all these books in the house taking up space is necessary too

[John F]

Originally Posted by issybird

From the petition:



I'm just not feeling this; I certainly don't think it's the hill for libraries to die on.

We've had variations on this conversation before. Saying "wait eight weeks" is not at all the same as saying, "you can't have this ever." Playing the violins about disabled readers gets an eyeroll from me. The disabled as well as anyone else who wants to borrow a particular Macmillan book from OverDrive can read something else in the interim - perhaps even a book that came out eight weeks ago. Libraries have never worked on immediate access anyway, unless you were a combination of lucky and cunning.

Shrug. Ebooks are still a market in tremendous flux and I'm not surprised that the players are tinkering with their models. I don't think the Big Five are the Big Evil and my own ineradicable preference is for gateway publishing. I think the libraries are using up outrage that could be better directed at other areas, especially expiring licenses.

Is it "wait eight weeks" though? What are Macmillan's terms? It is one permanent license during the first eight weeks, and than 2 year licenses at a higher price?

Talking to my librarian, they will not be purchasing the 2 year licenses (they are too expensive), so I'm guessing that wait times will continually be +6months, and for ebook users to gradually be weaned off of MacMillan authors. Again, for my library.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by John F

Is it "wait eight weeks" though? What are Macmillan's terms? It is one permanent license during the first eight weeks, and than 2 year licenses at a higher price?

Talking to my librarian, they will not be purchasing the 2 year licenses (they are too expensive), so I'm guessing that wait times will continually be +6months, and for ebook users to gradually be weaned off of MacMillan authors. Again, for my library.

By "wait eight weeks" I meant "wait eight weeks" to get the borrowing/waitlist process really underway. No matter how many copies a library licenses, only the lucky few are going to be first in line for any book. So it's a case of waitlist v. waitlist + eight weeks for most patrons anyway.

And your second paragraph was the point I made, that expiring licenses are a much more serious drawback than having a lag before a library can purchase multiple copies. I don't mind waiting, I expect to; but it's frustrating when I look for a book and see that the library used to have it and no longer does, leaving me SOL.

[John F]

Originally Posted by issybird

By "wait eight weeks" I meant "wait eight weeks" to get the borrowing/waitlist process really underway. No matter how many copies a library licenses, only the lucky few are going to be first in line for any book. So it's a case of waitlist v. waitlist + eight weeks for most patrons anyway.

Technically, you may be right, but again, for my library, there will only be one waitlist, and nothing special will happen after 8 weeks.

Your library may be different.

[UncleIvor]

So why do you all think that you can access a work which an author may have worked on for months or years ... for free?

[Deskisamess]

Originally Posted by UncleIvor

So why do you all think that you can access a work which an author may have worked on for months or years ... for free?

Because that is what public libraries do, they lend books. And I pay tax dollars to support my local library system.

No one is talking about freebies here.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by John F

Technically, you may be right, but again, for my library, there will only be one waitlist, and nothing special will happen after 8 weeks.

Well, yeah. There's only ever one waitlist.

But in your scenario, I frankly don't see what difference it makes at all. If your library is only going to buy one copy, they're only going to buy one copy. How long they'd have to wait to buy a second is irrelevant.

For most libraries which try to match as best they can purchases to demand, the size of the waitlist will help determine how many additional copies they license once the eight week waiting period is done.

I honestly don't get your point, here.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

Because that is what public libraries do, they lend books. And I pay tax dollars to support my local library system.

No one is talking about freebies here.

Except your tax dollars pay for everything at a library. Which means you’re effectively probably paying less than cents for an ebook loan.

Now I’ll stop here to say yes the library pays for the license and I’ll assume everyone who worked on the book sees the profits they’re owed under whatever agreement they have with the publisher. As to how what amount and how fair it is that’s a topic for a different thread.

So circling back here you are tossing fractions of a cent and getting cross that the publisher is going to treat you differently than the person who’s going to buy the book outright.

If you’re a business which person do you care about appeasing more? The one who gets you the most money or the least?

Sure the library patrons who like the book might sing its praises but those praises might only go back to more borrows from the library. And the people who buy the book are just as likely if not more so to sing its praises if they like it if only to justify buying it in their own mind. So at best this comes out a wash.

And for the people who say “I won’t buy a book anyway I’ll just wait” congratulations you’ve already been factored out of the equation since nothing the publisher does would sway you short of ceasing to sell licenses to the library.