GPL issues

[jlark]

Originally Posted by Randy11

Yes, "They must" but if the Chinese don't give the sources, what's they can make ?

If by "they" you mean the vendors, then not sell devices with pirated software, of course. :)

Originally Posted by Randy11

I'm not sure that Onyx support the European vendors.

I have a hunch the European plus U.S. sales amount for some 80% of their market share. Enough anyway, that they should become promptly supportive once the lawyers get their attention.

But all this is moot anyway. Let's get there and see what comes of it.

[jlark]

Originally Posted by docidocus

I'm really sorry to admit I unexpectedly got so much to do that I will not be able to follow this for the next few days (to weeks, but hopefully shorter). If I find a free minute I will add my conversation with Onyx for the records. If we have enough material we really should report them at gpl-violations.org. Anyway, I'm so glad this whole discussion came back alive!

I will also be AFK for 2 to possibly 4 weeks. If you don't do the reporting by then then I'll do it. :)

I guess we should gather the list of GPL software that is included with the devices, document how it's being used, and send that for their --verbose mode. :) We can also send them the individual mails we sent to Onyx / the vendors if they require them.

I was also thinking we should set up a mailing list on freelists.org, which we would CC in all conversations with the gpl-violations.org people. Everybody involved / interested could join the ML so we don't have to relay the messages across.

-----------
The GPL software on the Max (and I presume on all the new-generation Android devices) is:
- the Linux kernel -- Onyx added their own stuff, which wasn't built as a separate module; we don't know if they patched it in any other way;
- U-Boot -- they probably didn't modify the code, but we're after the config and device tree files;
- busybox -- I presume this one isn't modified from upstream but it should be on the list;
- FBReader -- I am not sure how this is used, maybe (one of) their viewers are wrappers around it (?). This needs research;
- anything else, anyone?

On the pre-Android devices, you go figure it out. If you don't have the linuxy skills required to do the digging I can offer my assistance when I'm back.

[docidocus]

I'm finally back again! Let's go on then...

The "About" dialogue of the M92 gives a nice list of software they used. I listed the important entries here:

- RedBoot (GPL with linking exception) -- but they are using U-Boot...
- usbutils (GPL v2+) -- presumably not modified (the others without comment too)
- mtdutils (GPL v2+)
- dosfstools (GPL v3)
- usb_modeswitch (GPL v2+)
- libiconv (LGPL)
- udev (GPL v2+)
- glibc...
- Qt4 (GPL v3, LGPL v2.1, diverse)
- libusb (LGPL)
- libpng (theirs)
- zlib (theirs)
- dbus, libdbus (GPL v2+)
- Freetype, libfreetype (theirs, GPL v2)
- FriBiDi (LGPL v2.1+)
- libcurl (MIT)
- tslib (LGPL v2.1+) -- config?
- OpenSSL, libcrypto, libssl (theirs)
- SQLite (public domain)
- wpa_supplicant (BSD)
- DjVuLibre (GPL v2)

From jlark's list only the Linux kernel and busybox are mentioned by Onyx. They give not even hints on the licensing for any of these.
There are some kernel modules too, but I don't know what is relevant there.

Other software:

- U-Boot (GPL v2+) -- see jlark's post
- busybox (GPL v2 only) -- see jlark's post
- wireless-tools (GPL)
- vsftpd (GPL)
- pppd (diverse)
- libbfd (GPL)
- podofo (LGPL) -- code available
- CoolReader (GPL v2) -- code available
- FBReader (GPL) -- code available
- Sudoku (GPL v3) -- code available
- liblinebreak (zlib) -- code available
- feed_reader (GPL v3) -- code available, has a license file, but the GPL header is missing in the sources
- NewsFlash (rss_reader) (GPL v3) -- code available, has a license file
- qstardict (GPL) -- code available as plugin for dictionary_tool
- espeak (GPL v3+) -- code available
- aisound (?) -- code available, no further info (but has interesting comments, like "/* 创建 TTS 实例 */")
- nandwrite (?)
- Naboo reader (?)
- Picsel office viewer (?) -- the file viewer for Microsoft Office files
- something VCOM related...
- there is some undefinable code that belongs to GPL'ed software too (it has the GPL header)

I'm sure these lists isn't complete.

Last but not least not all code provided in Onyx' open-source repository can be compiled. There are some essential parts missing, amongst them the following:

- system_manager
- web_browser
- libprivate_conf
- gui_shell
- etc.

The problem is, only dictionary, dictionary_tool, djvu_reader, fbreader_onyx and music_player are officially under the GPL; Onyx even provides a license file for them. The rest is not defined. The SDK is under GPL v2+, but no license file is given and all source files lack the GPL header.

[docidocus]

@jlark: setting up a mailing list is a good idea, as soon as we have collected anything we need to report Onyx.

[docidocus]

Just to be complete, here's my conversation with Onyx (<sales@onyx-international.com>):


My first email, dated August 3rd:

Dear Sir or Madam

I would like to ask modestly for the source code of any software of your e-
reading device "Onyx Boox M92" that underlies the terms of the GNU General
Public License (GPL).

Thank you in advance for your quick response.

Yours faithfully

The first answer on August 4th:

Thanks for your email, as M92 was 9.7" model with Linux system in 2012, and Onyx turn to Android from 2013. welcome to visit our official website www.onyx-international.com

best regards
Onyx International Inc.

Me again on August 4th, left without any reply:

Thank you for your reply.

I appreciate both of your approaches, using GNU/Linux as well as Android. As I do own a M92 I formally request herewith the source code of any software running on this device that underlies the GNU General Public License. This means amongst others the source code of the Linux kernel, uboot, libraries, etc. including any custom changes you made.

A rapid response would be appreciated.

Yours faithfully,

My last try on August 10th:

Dear Sir or Madam

In reference to your email from August 4 I would like to kindly remind you of my open request for the sources of any software under the GNU General Public License used on the e-reading device Onyx Boox M92.

I will now repeat my request as I already did in my last email on August 4. As I do own a M92 I formally request herewith the source code of any software running on this device that underlies the GNU General Public License (GPL). This means amongst others the source code of the Linux kernel, uboot, libraries, etc. including any custom changes you made.

Thank you in advance for your quick response.

Yours faithfully,

At last I tried to contact the leader of the development team directly, but his email address (hosted by Onyx) was no longer available and their email system bounced my message.

[jlark]

Hey, that's been a long couple of weeks.

@docidocus are you still interested in doing this?

[pochopsp]

Mmmmmm very interesting. I didn't know about this thing. So since Boox M92 uses Linux as its kernel, and a modified version of Linux as its OS, we can ask for Source Code from Onyx! It would be great because, as I am a M92 owner, I find it still today a great device, superior to the most part of eBook readers around, and it only has 1 or 2 missing features which would make it even better.

[docidocus]

@jlark: Absolutely! (And I'm sorry for my lack of endurance .)

BTW welcome back

[Pajamaman]

I applaud this effort. Well done, people.

[joblack]

Maybe a case for

http://gpl-violations.org/#

?

[plusz]

Hello, I have missed this thread. I'm interested too!

[Booxtor]

This matter has been discussed for a long time.
And you are of curse right, guys, with your claims. The problem is, Onyx is currently more interested in domestic market (makes currently 80% of their market share). The other 10% is Russia and 10 % the rest of the world. So they don't really care
I am not sure your efforts would be useful for other customers, since it would a) make those rare existing west vendors selling of Onyx devices even more complicated (but would make it easier for Chinese Aliexpress vendors) b) would cost really costly engineers time, which they could spend for currently more needed / important things and enhancements. In entire time I have received 2 or 3 requests for source code (10k customers). It does not seem to be really demanded by users. So I think enforcing of this matter would rather serve to satisfy a very small minority of users, than to help other users. It is just my opinion, so please don't throw stones at me. On my side I am trying to do my best. However some problems (like to convince Onyx dev team to collect source code, organize it and make it accessible and proper for western world users) are really hard to get solved and are hardly worth to nag it.

[plusz]

Originally Posted by Booxtor

On my side I am trying to do my best. However some problems (like to convince Onyx dev team to collect source code, organize it and make it accessible and proper for western world users) are really hard to get solved and are hardly worth to nag it.

Hi @Booxtor! Is it your team which solely ported the Android 4.4 to Onyx devices? Than I guess you have access to Onyx sources so you was able to take all the modifications and apply them on the new firmware. How does the software look like? Is it really so 'disorganized' that it would require refactoring, some bigger effort, to properly release? Could it be possible that your team may help Oxny gather the code, etc? On the other hand if you just ported the Android 4.4 from scratch taking only the user mode Android stuff from Onyx, could you release the kernel from 4.4 on your own then?

After all big kudos for your effort!

[jlark]

Originally Posted by Booxtor

This matter has been discussed for a long time.
And you are of curse right, guys, with your claims.

Hi Booxtor, first of all, it's nice to have you here.

The problem is, Onyx is currently more interested in domestic market (makes currently 80% of their market share). The other 10% is Russia and 10 % the rest of the world. So they don't really care

Well, it's true Europe's population is only half that of China, but the demand for e-ink devices is only gonna grow as they get faster. And when that happens it's up to us, the customers, to make sure the manufacturers and resellers abide by their obligations. If Onyx decides to be a part of it, it's their call.

I am not sure your efforts would be useful for other customers, since it would a) make those rare existing west vendors selling of Onyx devices even more complicated (but would make it easier for Chinese Aliexpress vendors)

Or, in the long run, open up the market for someone willing to respect their customers.

b) would cost really costly engineers time, which they could spend for currently more needed / important things and enhancements.

It is true it would take some time investment on their part, but there are a few things to consider:

1. they gained *an enormous* amount of engineering time, and saved *an enormous* amount of money by using open-source software. The Linux kernel alone was estimated to €2.2 billion, according to pretty old stats, probably past €5 billion by now.

2. once we have access to the code we'll join forces with them and fix their bugs and improve their software. For free. It will more than pay off in time.

3. they'll be doing The Right Thing, morally and contractually.

In entire time I have received 2 or 3 requests for source code (10k customers). It does not seem to be really demanded by users.

2 or 3 developers is nothing to sneer at. Some very succesful software companies have been started with fewer developers.

So I think enforcing of this matter would rather serve to satisfy a very small minority of users, than to help other users.

The point is who that minority of users are. They are the geeks, the tinkerers, the same people that drive technological progress. Their creative output is consumed by the rest of the 10k people. That should be a very important argument, and maybe, just maybe Onyx will understand that it would be a huge win for them to have such people on their side.

Open-source software serves the developers, the consumers, and society as a whole. And the GPL was created to prevent exactly this kind of abusive behaviour exhibited by takers, people who use the labour of others for their own profit without any desire to give back.

The fact that there's only 3 of us that care about such things is a commentary about the sad state of society, not about who gets satisfaction.

It is just my opinion, so please don't throw stones at me. On my side I am trying to do my best. However some problems (like to convince Onyx dev team to collect source code, organize it and make it accessible and proper for western world users) are really hard to get solved and are hardly worth to nag it.

It's good to know that, and thank you for your effort. But really, there isn't all that much they need to do, and they needn't do it all at once. Besides, this should be company policy, not up to the dev team's schedule or preferences, and it would only require them to start with three very simple things to win our hearts:

1. communicate with their customers.

2. make an official statement saying "Sorry guys, we were supposed to give you the source code for X, Y and Z but we didn't. We promise to fix this, but it will take some time, bear with us".

3. as a token of good will, put the kernel online, for all of their devices.

That would really make us happy and allow us to start playing already. Then they can follow up with the bootloader and the rest of the code that is GPL-ed. If at some point they'll want to dump the Android code too, that would be wonderful, and as I said above it would be a net win for them, but in the end they are not required to do so.

[plusz]

I remember days when my dad bought TV and it come with full data sheet and troubleshooting manual. Likewise the first car he bought came with a hefty book of repair manual, with all the parts and labour explained for a simple man.

A decade later, I started programming and I could get full handbook of my PC, every port, every register, all explained so I could hack it as much as I wanted.

Nowadays, we are in the era when things are sold sealed not even exposing a simple option to replace the battery 'for the benefit of the users'

I was watching with excitement the Good-E-reader campaign but it turned out very badly - clunky devices and no trace of the source code which was promised.

What can I say, I benefit from the Boox Max, I benefit from smart phone but I don't agree everything is fine. It's an era of b**.