Texas goes after the Agency Cartel

vaughnmr · 06-01-2010, 06:39 PM

Looks like the state of Texas is now investigating the agency model, and that includes Apple:

http://www.teleread.com/2010/06/01/t...del-and-apple/

Let the fireworks begin...

fjtorres · 06-01-2010, 06:43 PM

Fingers and assorted limbs crossed.
Hope they take them to court in *east* texas.

Tamara · 06-01-2010, 06:53 PM

At least it'll distract them from rewriting history books.

vaughnmr · 06-01-2010, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamara

At least it'll distract them from rewriting history books.

They were getting jealous of those fine folks over in Kansas.

LOL, ultra right-wing, ultra-conservative, these folks here are very serious about making their mark, might cecede from the Union at any moment. I'm afraid to mention out loud in crowds that I voted Dem.

leebase · 06-01-2010, 08:38 PM

Nothing is going to come of this. There is no price fixing going on. Price fixing is when two (or more) different companies agree to sell at a certain price. There is no agreement between any of the publishers to not sell their books lower than another publisher.

If you buy insurance...it's likely from an "Insurance Agent" -- who does not set the price of the insurance. There are lots and lots of business that work this way. Going to "agency pricing" is not price fixing.

Lee

asjogren · 06-01-2010, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leebase

There are lots and lots of business that work this way. Going to "agency pricing" is not price fixing.

Yes, but this is unique. These publishers are "price fixing" only the eBook version.

fjtorres · 06-01-2010, 09:14 PM

Actually, price fixing isn't the only form of anti-trust violation that *might* apply to the Agency model. I'm thinking that the publicly-stated intent to eliminate discounting and price-based competition in ebook sales factors just a *wee* bit into the investigation.

Add in that the instigator, Apple, is already under investigation for their practices in other content business where they've thrown their weight around to squash discounting and there is just enough smoke for savvy politicians to see an opening to boost their careers.

All they're doing for now is asking questions.

But we're moving into a populist era in the US, so the climate is right for politicians to go after elitist corporations. And the the tech company with the highest stock market valuation and more cash on hand than California owes is a nice fat target.

(That's why I suggested East Texas for the trial; those folks have a track record. Look it up.)

SensualPoet · 06-01-2010, 10:54 PM

Depending on how the legislation is written, this is a problem for Apple. Any reasonable person, presented with the facts -- before and after Apple "insisted" on the agency model -- must conclude that pricing of e-books from several leading vendors is no longer "free" and is, in fact, tied to contractual obligations which, miraculously, contain the same coercive rules applied to vendors. Apple's vulnerability is the openly blatant public stand it took.

Free enterprise at work? Free market mechanics? Or consumer gouging among members of a closed club? I don't think it's a slam dunk one way or the other ... the details will matter. One can smell the smoke ... even if the gun cannot be (conveniently) located.

Iphinome · 06-01-2010, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

Depending on how the legislation is written, this is a problem for Apple. Any reasonable person, presented with the facts -- before and after Apple "insisted" on the agency model -- must conclude that pricing of e-books from several leading vendors is no longer "free" and is, in fact, tied to contractual obligations which, miraculously, contain the same coercive rules applied to vendors. Apple's vulnerability is the openly blatant public stand it took.

Free enterprise at work? Free market mechanics? Or consumer gouging among members of a closed club? I don't think it's a slam dunk one way or the other ... the details will matter. One can smell the smoke ... even if the gun cannot be (conveniently) located.

Hmm I think the word you're looking for is capitalism. Though personally I prefer free enterprise and and a reasonably free market to pure capitalism. I suppose I just don't like monopolies.

Kosst Amojan · 06-01-2010, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vaughnmr

They were getting jealous of those fine folks over in Kansas.

LOL, ultra right-wing, ultra-conservative, these folks here are very serious about making their mark, might cecede from the Union at any moment. I'm afraid to mention out loud in crowds that I voted Dem.

Heh, even dems out there are pretty conservative (not that I trust them for a second

). I'm from SW Louisiana so I know East Texas pretty well and they're just like us, Republicans and Dems both arguing who's stronger on gun rights and the like.

Unfortunatly, if the AG is handling this, the case will be heard in Austin which is an island of blue in a sea of red. Can't know more until a case is brought but in general Texas is pretty strict against price fixing...and then going after some with anti-trust lawsuits. I think they went against BP (F&*^%$s) a while back.

SensualPoet · 06-01-2010, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iphinome

Hmm I think the word you're looking for is capitalism. Though personally I prefer free enterprise and and a reasonably free market to pure capitalism. I suppose I just don't like monopolies.

As I say ... it's not a slam dunk -- the details will matter.

I'm strongly in favour of capitalism ... where markets are free. The very public behaviour of Apple in the "change of rules" does not smack of a "free market" ... and that's the problem. Amazon was insisting it have the right to set its own price to the consumer -- up to and including taking a loss per sale. Apple's agency model effectively dictates the price the consumer pays across all vendors which can be interpreted without much of a leap as price fixing.

Iphinome · 06-01-2010, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

As I say ... it's not a slam dunk -- the details will matter.

I'm strongly in favour of capitalism ... where markets are free. The very public behaviour of Apple in the "change of rules" does not smack of a "free market" ... and that's the problem. Amazon was insisting it have the right to set its own price to the consumer -- up to and including taking a loss per sale. Apple's agency model effectively dictates the price the consumer pays across all vendors which can be interpreted without much of a leap as price fixing.

How do you mix capitalism with a free market?

Iphinome · 06-02-2010, 12:03 AM

Hmm allow me to be more clear, promoting ownership of resources without protections against monopolies does not a free market make. Barriers to entry are one thing but amassing capital in real terms, owning huge amounts of the timber or the coal or the whatever gives you control over the market, you can dump thing below cost to drive others out of buisness, you could refuse to sell to anyone who buys from a competitor but requires more than they can provide. Ultimately pure capitalism leads to monopolies and leaves things basically as feudalism without the fancy titles.

J. Strnad · 06-02-2010, 12:47 AM

What Iphinome said.

Logseman · 06-02-2010, 11:52 AM

I just hope that once they find that collusions in this industry cripple the market, they go for the other collusive industries (insurance, banks, M.D's and the like).

06-01-2010, 06:39 PM	#1
vaughnmr Ebook Reader Posts: 605 Karma: 3205128 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Texas Device: Kindle 3, HTC Evo, HTC View	Texas goes after the Agency Cartel Looks like the state of Texas is now investigating the agency model, and that includes Apple: http://www.teleread.com/2010/06/01/t...del-and-apple/ Let the fireworks begin...

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06-01-2010, 06:43 PM	#2
fjtorres Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,732 Karma: 128354696 Join Date: May 2009 Location: 26 kly from Sgr A* Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000	Fingers and assorted limbs crossed. Hope they take them to court in east texas.

06-01-2010, 06:53 PM	#3
Tamara Evangelist Posts: 446 Karma: 1812 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: iPhone	At least it'll distract them from rewriting history books.

06-01-2010, 08:38 PM	#5
leebase Karma Kameleon Posts: 2,934 Karma: 26616647 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: iPad Mini, iPhone X, Kindle Fire Tab HD 8, Walmart Onn	Nothing is going to come of this. There is no price fixing going on. Price fixing is when two (or more) different companies agree to sell at a certain price. There is no agreement between any of the publishers to not sell their books lower than another publisher. If you buy insurance...it's likely from an "Insurance Agent" -- who does not set the price of the insurance. There are lots and lots of business that work this way. Going to "agency pricing" is not price fixing. Lee

06-01-2010, 09:14 PM	#7
fjtorres Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,732 Karma: 128354696 Join Date: May 2009 Location: 26 kly from Sgr A* Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000	Actually, price fixing isn't the only form of anti-trust violation that might apply to the Agency model. I'm thinking that the publicly-stated intent to eliminate discounting and price-based competition in ebook sales factors just a wee bit into the investigation. Add in that the instigator, Apple, is already under investigation for their practices in other content business where they've thrown their weight around to squash discounting and there is just enough smoke for savvy politicians to see an opening to boost their careers. All they're doing for now is asking questions. But we're moving into a populist era in the US, so the climate is right for politicians to go after elitist corporations. And the the tech company with the highest stock market valuation and more cash on hand than California owes is a nice fat target. (That's why I suggested East Texas for the trial; those folks have a track record. Look it up.)

06-01-2010, 10:54 PM	#8
SensualPoet Wizard Posts: 2,302 Karma: 2607151 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Toronto Device: Kobo Aura HD, Kindle Paperwhite, Asus ZenPad 3, Kobo Glo	Depending on how the legislation is written, this is a problem for Apple. Any reasonable person, presented with the facts -- before and after Apple "insisted" on the agency model -- must conclude that pricing of e-books from several leading vendors is no longer "free" and is, in fact, tied to contractual obligations which, miraculously, contain the same coercive rules applied to vendors. Apple's vulnerability is the openly blatant public stand it took. Free enterprise at work? Free market mechanics? Or consumer gouging among members of a closed club? I don't think it's a slam dunk one way or the other ... the details will matter. One can smell the smoke ... even if the gun cannot be (conveniently) located.

06-02-2010, 12:03 AM	#13
Iphinome Paladin of Eris Posts: 3,119 Karma: 20849349 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: USAland Device: Kindle 10	Hmm allow me to be more clear, promoting ownership of resources without protections against monopolies does not a free market make. Barriers to entry are one thing but amassing capital in real terms, owning huge amounts of the timber or the coal or the whatever gives you control over the market, you can dump thing below cost to drive others out of buisness, you could refuse to sell to anyone who buys from a competitor but requires more than they can provide. Ultimately pure capitalism leads to monopolies and leaves things basically as feudalism without the fancy titles.

06-02-2010, 12:47 AM	#14
J. Strnad Guru Posts: 915 Karma: 3537194 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Kobo, Kindle 3, Paperwhite	What Iphinome said.

06-02-2010, 11:52 AM	#15
Logseman Orisa Posts: 1,999 Karma: 1035571 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Ireland Device: Onyx Poke 5	I just hope that once they find that collusions in this industry cripple the market, they go for the other collusive industries (insurance, banks, M.D's and the like).

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