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Old 05-25-2020, 06:41 AM   #61
Yoko22
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Device: Hisense A5C
It's quite a big rise in price compared to the JD website though, I thought they had like a 20-30$ difference but it seems price can difference can go up by 80$. It seems preferable to buy directly from them with that big price difference.
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Old 05-26-2020, 01:13 PM   #62
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I am confused by some posts at the beginning of the thread.
It is apparent that the device does not contain Google Play nor the Google Play Services. Ok.
Some seem to say that applications cannot be installed to the Hisense A5C. This sounds extremely strange: was that literal or does that include strong assumptions?
I install applications on my devices with
`adb install myapplication.apk`
and no other method really. And many of my devices have never seen the light of the Internet - which is no hindrance to software installation.
This is supposed to work right? The Hisense products have a developer mode, and the ability to install software, like all the rest of Android devices [I ever tried], right?

And that software normally can be installed on Hisense devices is what I read from Question Mark:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Question Mark View Post
As for Google Play, I have learned to live quite happily without it on my A5. Sideloading the apps I need has proved quite easy.
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:07 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdp View Post
I install applications on my devices with
`adb install myapplication.apk`
and no other method really. And many of my devices have never seen the light of the Internet - which is no hindrance to software installation.
This is supposed to work right? The Hisense products have a developer mode, and the ability to install software, like all the rest of Android devices [I ever tried], right?
Although I haven't used that method to install third party apps, it should work. There is very definitely a Developer Mode and the device works much like any other Android tablet or phone which I have ever used.

I've simply used places like F-Droid to install the apps I need. Very easy to do, but perhaps not quite as safe as your method. However, my A5 is very seldom ever connected to the internet, nor used much as a phone. I got it mainly as an ultra portable ereader and now use it much more than my Onyx devices unless I am reading a PDF.
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Old 05-26-2020, 03:04 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Question Mark View Post
Although I haven't used that method to install third party apps, it should work. There is very definitely a Developer Mode and the device works much like any other Android tablet or phone which I have ever used. // I've simply used places like F-Droid to install the apps I need.
That is good to know. So there should be no such thing as "you cannot install applications" on it (I cannot at the moment search for the exact quotes).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Question Mark View Post
Very easy to do, but perhaps not quite as safe as your method
My method is safe in the regard, that you can build your own repository of applications, and the right versions, so you can fulfill the basic hope of "having them", and of being able to install even if you happened to have no Internet (which is not granted infrastructure), and you can install the version that you deem more appropriate (and there could be loads of examples: this one introduced effects that would make Timothy Leary scream, that one introduced a decupleton of adware, thot one removed all the features and only left a button with a small 'MINIMALISM' label at the bottom...)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Question Mark View Post
However, my A5 is very seldom ever connected to the internet, nor used much as a phone. I got it mainly as an ultra portable ereader and now use it much more than my Onyx devices unless I am reading a PDF.
I hope you tried the emotion of installing Orux Maps on it, load some map in offline-mode (as per the note just above), turn the GPS on and take some good walk in some well chosen area... ; )

(EDIT: Which would be one of the reasons why the colour e-ink phone kind of makes me wonder if... But - I am trying to understand how colour is managed - if the resolution is purposely downgraded, 300dpi to 100dpi, in the wrong parts of the rendering, an ugly mess could result. It should be seen, high definition pictures would be needed)

Last edited by mdp; 05-26-2020 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 05-26-2020, 03:27 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko22 View Post
I wonder if the reading of text on that device is as good as the monochrome one.
Probably yes and no and no.

The displays, I assume, are the same, but for the superimposed colour filter.

Greyscale Update would have anything rendered on the 1440x720x4bit matrix. BUT, the colour filter is there, and it must disturb a bit the image... That is like having a thin colour-thick curtain over your standard e-reader.

AND, the rendering may not be the usual - it depends on how it is engineered, and this matter is not perfectly clear. If the system thinks it has to display greyscale, it will go filling the 1440x720x4bit as usual. But it may think that it has to render colour, and for that it will use an unbelievable amount of dots, given the microscopic details of its Kaleido as I have seen it. In fact, normally I would guess 4 dots per coloured pixel, but this filter uses more tinted bars per EPD dot! According to goodereader.com, it uses a whopping 9, and that is weird to say the least.
So it depends on what the following from Michael Kozlowski means in practice (because what is key here is: when/where does the device decide to render taking colour into account, and when/where does it render as usual):

Quote:
Let’s talk about use case scenarios on the Hisense A5c. Say you are reading a standard ebook, the cover art on the first page will be in color and the display resolution will be at 100 PPI. When you turn to a page that only has black text on a white background it will display all of the content at 300 PPI, so text will be razor sharp. PDF rendering engines will display PDF files as an image, because that is basically what they are. These files will basically just display 4,096 colors at 100 PPI. If the PDF if a scanlation or was just made into B&W with no colors, it will display as normal. App icons will be at 100 PPI, and ditto with the color UI of the apps.
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Old 05-26-2020, 03:34 PM   #66
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This is from a video I saw (see attach).

Oddly, Kaleido uses three dots big filter stripes.
Attached Thumbnails
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Old 05-26-2020, 03:45 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdurrant View Post
A page refresh of 136ms means that page turns should be only just noticeable
A2 mode means, in theory, 125ms. But that is only theory, as on e.g. the display modules of the hi-res Onyx Max I counted less than 8fps (6½? I cannot remember).

But of course we are talking about A2, which you visit from time to time but do nor marry. Beware of modes which are not Greyscale Update and promise much but do not tell (or show) you the drawbacks.
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Old 05-26-2020, 03:54 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orebmur View Post
Do i really own a device if i can't install or remove stuff as i please?
<ot>
Is it satisfactory to have a device on which you cannot really `dd` / install NATURALLY whatever OS you may want to run on it, with particular regard to more vetted ones.

(No.)

<bad feelings>I am currently because of an accident using a backup device that uses Android +n , instead of my usual Android 0. Oh, the very. many. things. they have broken. And I cannot dd my well working system, nor I can configure the new one.</bad feelings>
</ot>

OT, but very important.
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Old 05-27-2020, 03:28 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdp View Post
That is good to know. So there should be no such thing as "you cannot install applications" on it (I cannot at the moment search for the exact quotes).




My method is safe in the regard, that you can build your own repository of applications, and the right versions, so you can fulfill the basic hope of "having them", and of being able to install even if you happened to have no Internet (which is not granted infrastructure), and you can install the version that you deem more appropriate (and there could be loads of examples: this one introduced effects that would make Timothy Leary scream, that one introduced a decupleton of adware, thot one removed all the features and only left a button with a small 'MINIMALISM' label at the bottom...)




I hope you tried the emotion of installing Orux Maps on it, load some map in offline-mode (as per the note just above), turn the GPS on and take some good walk in some well chosen area... ; )

(EDIT: Which would be one of the reasons why the colour e-ink phone kind of makes me wonder if... But - I am trying to understand how colour is managed - if the resolution is purposely downgraded, 300dpi to 100dpi, in the wrong parts of the rendering, an ugly mess could result. It should be seen, high definition pictures would be needed)
I'm no expert with resolution but if the resolution would be a problem due to the colors wouldn't we see it in the different video online?
You guys speak of 300dpi restrained to 100dpi, that's 3 times less, wouldn't we see a big difference while watching those video compared to an A5 ?
I'm haven't compared directly but it seems the same, what do you guys think , especially those who already have a A5?
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Old 05-27-2020, 06:30 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko22 View Post
You guys speak of 300dpi restrained to 100dpi, that's 3 times less, wouldn't we see a big difference while watching those video compared to an A5 ?
I would say that's actually 9 times as few, or 8 times less. (It's one third linearly, but the display's a surface.)

To get visual proofs, you should find frames of a rendering of a string in colour (instead of black), and that of pdf renderings. It depends on where the two renderers, 300dpi colour-agnostic and 100dpi colour conscious, trigger. Frames should be found showing the two.

Considering the picture I have taken, it seems clear that Kaleido cannot show a black string, then a red string, then a(ny random) #rgb string, at the same resolution. The black one can always be 300dpi, above the mélange background. To build one in colour it has to take pieces from a 3x3 matrix.

(In fact, I do not understand why Kaleido has not used an RG/BW scheme, picking from a 2x2.)

Basically: if it renders any raster at 100dpi and any vector at 300dpi, then it's fine. If it actually does that. If the software applications or libraries used (e.g. Librera, android.webkit.WebView etc.) allow it or play along with it. And it seems to me pretty much certain that, for example, it will not be able to display high resolution strings in colour.

Last edited by mdp; 05-27-2020 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 05-28-2020, 06:08 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdp View Post
And it seems to me pretty much certain that, for example, it will not be able to display high resolution strings in colour.
If it is in colour, then it will be displayed in colour, but with 100 dpi - unreadable
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Old 05-29-2020, 12:40 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdp View Post
Basically: if it renders any raster at 100dpi and any vector at 300dpi, then it's fine. If it actually does that. If the software applications or libraries used (e.g. Librera, android.webkit.WebView etc.) allow it or play along with it. And it seems to me pretty much certain that, for example, it will not be able to display high resolution strings in colour.
Actually it is not automatically 300 vs. 100. The Hisense is 276 ppi so it will be 1/3 of that.

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Old 05-31-2020, 05:34 AM   #73
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Is it not simple to install Google stuff using a Toolkit the way is done on Amazon Fire HD's?
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Old 06-01-2020, 01:44 PM   #74
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Actually it is not automatically 300 vs. 100. The Hisense is 276 ppi
Oops I trusted Kozlowski.
But anyway: how come the display is not found among eink modules, at
www.eink.com/modules.html
? There is no 5.84'' 1440x720 display!

And if one checks products by "newness" (verbatim, their term), one colour display appears but it is a 600x448 that is probably ACeP:
shopkits.eink.com/product/5-65%cb%9d-e-ink-gallery-palette-4000-epaper-display-ab1024-ega-%e3%80%90display-module-only%e3%80%91/
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Old 06-01-2020, 02:10 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by ottischwenk View Post
If it is in colour, then it will be displayed in colour, but with 100 dpi - unreadable
But it is not clear how it is engineered, hence detailed pictures should be seen.
The concepts we are using here are strongly metaphors, not facts: it is certainly tinted, it does somehow build colour, but the perceptive trick there is much more unusual than RGB and CMYK: it does not even have black as K, the closest it has to K-black can be the dots partially overlapping the gaps between the tinted bars... Not to mention it does not have white (what I called "mélange")!

So: how clever will be the algorithms that detect what to render and how? What is rasterized and what is kept as vector, and how are the subpixels treated in the rasterization?

Because, just by thinking a bit on it, one could for example keep full-res vector, e.g. rendering this text, and still tint it red or mauve - by rendering anti-aliased black (meaning grey-surrounded black) and brightening it where that black overlaps the red-tinted bars of the filter (or similarly other RGB composition). Certainly this is not as clean as the rendering of a black vector graphics, first of all, but especially one should wonder whether such effect (as I proposed it) has an acceptable result.

Not all tricks are feasible, nor all tricks are employed. In fact, for example, such device will have to rely heavily on A2 to display video. Now: will such A2 be employed cleverly or not? Because, for example, I have seen devices using a Floyd-Steinberg dithering for A2 rendering: which has the gigantic drawback of using very heavy randomness in a hardware technology which has the characteristic of having a breakthrough low cost in retaining dot state, and conversely a massive cost in changing such dot state (of dots which also have a limited lifetime) - thus losing the power efficiency of E-Ink's EPD. Clever dithering on EPD not only generically looks nice: it is also supposed to change as little dots as possible. Implementation not granted at all.
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