More Software! Idea Spinner vs Scapple

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by skb

Somewhere along the line, I discovered Scrivener Gold (when it was free). It suited my workflow. I still only use a fraction of its functionality. I didn’t want characters, scenes, locations, items etc of yWriter (which to be honest, overwhelmed me with stuff). I just want to be able to move stuff around or even remove it without losing it. I've tried other programs (StoryMill and...others which I've forgotten), but Scrivener just suits me. I'm afraid I'm rusted on to Scrivener now.

Stupid question, if I may--since the whole "drag and drop scenes/chapters around" thing originated in Word, may I ask why you don't drag-drop it there, or...is that not in the Mac version? The Document map/Pane?

And I think I'm the only person ever to think mind mapping programs the most annoying software in the universe (big call, I know). My old IT colleagues loved them and I used to spend "brain storming" sessions rolling my eyes. But again, that's just me.


* best word ever.

OMG, no. I would cry, telling you about how many different Mind-mapping apps I've tried--free, paid, demo-and I HATE THEM. I am NOT visual that way. I can do outlines, legal documents of many levels of outline, etc., all day long. But mind-mapping? KILL ME NOW.

YOU ARE NOT ALONE. :-)

Hitch
P.S.: glad you like foofy.

[skb]

It's been a while since I used Word for anything other than reports etc but I think the Document map/Pane thing depends on headings, doesn't it? I was 50,000 words in and no headings. I hadn't...planned that far. The story just grewed. Like Topsy. It was, largely, an accident. From which I have never recovered.

And yes, I could certainly use it (Word) that way, but apart from the moving things around thing, I do use the document notes and a couple of little bits and bobs and quite frankly, I couldn't be bothered doing in Word (although, yes, there's nothing that isn't...er, Wordable).

Word has all the tempting formatting and whatnot which I find...irresistible. So, for me, no formatting, beyond maybe italics, is a huge positive.

Edited: Oh and I had a poster of Dogbert outing the demons of stupidity over my desk in my IT days. I worship at the alter of Adams.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by skb

It's been a while since I used Word for anything other than reports etc but I think the Document map/Pane thing depends on headings, doesn't it? I was 50,000 words in and no headings. I hadn't...planned that far. The story just grewed. Like Topsy. It was, largely, an accident. From which I have never recovered.

AH. Yes, indeedy--as all things, the "magic" of Word, outline view, Document Pane, etc. is ALL about styles and headings. It never ceases to boggle me that so many writers don't use either--which would make their lives SOOOOOOOO much easier and their documents/manuscripts, etc., go so much faster. Seriously, in 5,000 manuscripts that I've quoted, in the last decade (yes, really) I can count on two hands the number of ms's in Word that I've seen that use Styles/Headings. Fewer than TEN. That's a pitiful percentage.

And yes, I could certainly use it (Word) that way, but apart from the moving things around thing, I do use the document notes and a couple of little bits and bobs and quite frankly, I couldn't be bothered doing in Word (although, yes, there's nothing that isn't...er, Wordable).

Hey, you know? I tell people all the time, the system that works for you is the RIGHT system. That's all that matters. I was just curious, 'cuz you mentioned the drag-drop thing. (I hear that about Scriv a lot--"but, but, I can DRAG AND DROP," and I'm always saying--you know that Word started that, right? They never do know that it even exists in Word.)

Word has all the tempting formatting and whatnot which I find...irresistible. So, for me, no formatting, beyond maybe italics, is a huge positive.

Yeah, if you have Tinkeritis, I can see that. I have to discipline myself mightily over the same ailment. It's even worse when you know Word inside out, lol.

Edited: Oh and I had a poster of Dogbert outing the demons of stupidity over my desk in my IT days. I worship at the alter of Adams.

Me too. Dogbert, Catbert....but this one, (Demons of Stupidity) of all of them, since taking up my present occupation, just speaks to me. ;-)


Hitch

[BookCat]

skb: Please find and learn how to use the Outline View in Word. It's great! You can plan your writing on so many levels: chapters, scenes, brief info, then the text itself.
I used to start with the chapters, then insert the scene headings, the level under that would contain brief notes for the scenes (if I had any). This structure inevitable changed as I wrote the main text, which was written in FocusWriter then copied and pasted at Body Text level in Word.

If I found that chapters or scenes needed to be in a different order, I could just grab them by the plus sign and drag the whole lot to a new place. If I wanted to insert new scenes that was simple too.

I wrote most of the first draft of a novel called The Haunted like this (only three-quarters finished) before moving to the more 'foofy' Scrivener. Because I still use an old version of Word (2002) which I have on disc, the little cat office manager was installed when I changed my laptop to Win 7 and he entertained me as I worked. No little cat on Scrivener!!!

As for traditional mind mapping software, I dislike the traditional stuff - prefering pens and paper - but Scapple is totally different. It doesn't demand a hierarchical structure of parent-child nodes, being totally free form. Just look at some google images of Scapples to understand this.

Hitch: Don't let the Demons of Stupidity grind you down!

[skb]

Originally Posted by Hitch

AH. Yes, indeedy--as all things, the "magic" of Word, outline view, Document Pane, etc. is ALL about styles and headings. It never ceases to boggle me that so many writers don't use either--which would make their lives SOOOOOOOO much easier and their documents/manuscripts, etc., go so much faster. Seriously, in 5,000 manuscripts that I've quoted, in the last decade (yes, really) I can count on two hands the number of ms's in Word that I've seen that use Styles/Headings. Fewer than TEN. That's a pitiful percentage.

I nearly cried, honestly cried, after I created a beautiful template in Word using styles to create "perfect every single time" report that we produced when I worked with scientists/engineers. I distributed it - with instructions - to everyone that needed it. I explained how it would help them and even demonstrated it.

Not one person used the styles or the template and each report that was produced was the hideous Word formatting stew that is oh, so common.

Don't use Heading 1 when you can make it bold, arial, 20pt and then complain that "formatting in word is too hard" and "it's so stupid it won't make a table of contents". Also, put in extra carriage returns. That's always good too. And manual numbering. Oh, and it's really important to change the spacing between every paragraph. Don't forget to tell me how much better Word Perfect was too. Because I'm not crushed enough.

I now feel slightly ill.

BookCat - I've moved to Scrivener but if I had to create a report (a la my previous life in a laboratory) I would use Word instead. Although, all those shiny options call to me...ooooh, widows & orphan control, styling up my TOC...must resist, must resist.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by skb

I nearly cried, honestly cried, after I created a beautiful template in Word using styles to create "perfect every single time" report that we produced when I worked with scientists/engineers. I distributed it - with instructions - to everyone that needed it. I explained how it would help them and even demonstrated it.

Not one person used the styles or the template and each report that was produced was the hideous Word formatting stew that is oh, so common.

Don't use Heading 1 when you can make it bold, arial, 20pt and then complain that "formatting in word is too hard" and "it's so stupid it won't make a table of contents". Also, put in extra carriage returns. That's always good too. And manual numbering. Oh, and it's really important to change the spacing between every paragraph. Don't forget to tell me how much better Word Perfect was too. Because I'm not crushed enough.

I now feel slightly ill.

BookCat - I've moved to Scrivener but if I had to create a report (a la my previous life in a laboratory) I would use Word instead. Although, all those shiny options call to me...ooooh, widows & orphan control, styling up my TOC...must resist, must resist.

LOLOL. Sorry, I never meant to make you feel ill. I do, however, share your pain. I've given up trying to teach my clients Styles, or headings, or any of it. Hell, I'm lucky I can get them to use a simple Proofing form in Word, that's in a table, so....I give up! Some folks just can push buttons, and get rote, expected (sometimes....) results. Others need to make stuff work, and understand the HOW of it. Ne'er do the twain meet in the same person, IME.

Don't forget--TOCs have their own styles, too. OMG! You could make a template.....

Hitch

[skb]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Don't forget--TOCs have their own styles, too. OMG! You could make a template.....

Hitch

TOCs do indeed have their own styles. What a rabbit hole of shiny that was with the last annual report I did. I admit it...there was tweaking. And admiring (by me) of the sheer beauty of it.

I need more in my life.

[BookCat]

"what a rabbit hole of shiny"

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by BookCat

"what a rabbit hole of shiny"

Ditto, that's hilarious. Moreso 'cuz, lemme tell ya, done been down dat dere rabbit hole of shiny, brothers and sisters!

Hitch

[Lemurion]

I've written novels in both yWriter and Scrivener, and they both work for me. Of the two, yWriter is definitely more functional, but I find that it's easier to get into my writing headspace with Scrivener.

The biggest issue I have with yWriter as opposed to Scrivener is that it doesn't play nice with the Mac. My normal writing flow has me using a Mac, an iPad, and at least one Windows laptop in the course of a day. I can do that easily with Scrivener, but not with yWriter.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

I've written novels in both yWriter and Scrivener, and they both work for me. Of the two, yWriter is definitely more functional, but I find that it's easier to get into my writing headspace with Scrivener.

The biggest issue I have with yWriter as opposed to Scrivener is that it doesn't play nice with the Mac. My normal writing flow has me using a Mac, an iPad, and at least one Windows laptop in the course of a day. I can do that easily with Scrivener, but not with yWriter.

Ah. I can see how that could be disruptive. :-s

I'm glad to see at least one other YWriter fan!

Hitch