How annoying is the lack of quotation marks to you?

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Catlady

If I saw an explanation of punctuation or fonts at the beginning of a book, my first impulse would be to close that book and go on to something else.

I am curious why you use square brackets when the conventional way to indicate direct thoughts is italics.

Yeah, this would be my instinct too. Just my gut reaction.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by TGS

I'd just like to point out that my original contribution was a defence of stylistic experimentation and variance from the norm in certain kinds of fiction, against a kind of dismissive rubbishing - or attack - that was characterised by catlady's post - which was by no means the only example of the phenomenon, just the one I responded to. It was not an attack on anyone, so it confuses me why discussions about the aesthetics of literature have to descend into slagging people off. Perhaps I am being a bit disingenuous when I say it confuses me - my suspicion is that it comes from a strong anti-intellectual streak in British and American culture, but that's another topic. Basically, if you don't like work that is challenging, don't read it, and if you do read it don't blame it for pissing you off, would be as brief a summary of my own position as I can manage.

(BOLD emphasis added)

res ipsa loquitur.

Now you and Spellbanisher can debate whether the substance of what I just said was more important than the style, or whether the style was of more import than the substance.

The irony of this sentence...

It was not an attack on anyone, so it confuses me why discussions about the aesthetics of literature have to descend into slagging people off.

in the same 4-sentence long paragraph as...

"...against a kind of dismissive rubbishing - or attack - that was characterised by catlady's post..." along with,
"...my suspicion is that it comes from a strong anti-intellectual streak in British and American culture, but that's another topic..." AND, topping it off with this gem
"...if you don't like work that is challenging, don't read it, and if you do read it don't blame it for pissing you off..."

...is priceless.

And now, out of deference to Catlady's wishes, I'm going to disengage from this thread. I don't want her dragged into it any further--as she shouldn't have been in the first place.

Hitch

[arjaybe]

I prefer to use double quotes for dialogue so I can use single quotes for quotes within quotes.

[AndrewH]

To me it seems as though the lack of quotation marks, or any other means of marking dialogue, is a pretentious affectation as silly as deciding not to use the letter M, commas, paragraph breaks, or some other random grammatical point. "Today I shall write a book with no articles! All instances of a, an, and the will be deleted! Why? Because I can, and I shall call it art!"

As Hitch said in an earlier post, if an author can't be bothered to denote dialogue, I can't be bothered to buy their book.

I've read a fair number of British books lately which use single quotes for dialogue rather than double quotes as in American books. Although it doesn't prevent me from reading, or even enjoying, the book I do find it distracting when apostrophes are used.

[ClairePMR]

I would never even consider reading a book published without standard punctuation conventions. Punctuation, including quotation marks, substantially contributes to clarity and meaning. (See Lynne Truss' book for one of the best arguments ever presented on this topic: http://www.amazon.com/Eats-Shoots-Le...ots+and+Leaves) Absent these visual clues and cues, a reader must work significantly harder to interpret what the author has written, thus diluting his message in basic language comprehension struggles.

I am no fan of "whole language" methods, and this is clearly an extension of those ridiculous practices. Call me old-fashioned, but I've never had a reader tell me that he misinterpreted my writing for reasons of grammar or punctuation.

[Xanthe]

Originally Posted by cklls

Absent these visual clues and cues, a reader must work significantly harder to interpret what the author has written, thus diluting his message in basic language comprehension struggles.

I agree with that, though apparently the unwillingness to continue to read such a book because one finds the attempt to wade through the author's "style" tiresome and distracting, is viewed by some as some sort of failed intellectual challenge.

Joyce's "Ulysses" was a ground-breaker; that's the reason it's considered "literary fiction". Imitation, while supposedly the sincerest form of flattery, does not necessarily literary fiction make. If the content of a current book doesn't justify the use of its non-standard technique, then the failing is on the part of the author not the reader, because s/he has failed to intrigue the reader sufficiently to make them want to continue reading the book.

[speakingtohe]

Probably most of the books I have bought from unfamiliar authors have intrigued me before I opened the cover. A brief synopsis or excerpt on the back cover, would be my starting point. Then depending on the price perhaps I might look at the prologue, first paragraph and a random page or two.

Generally I have liked them. I can't recall a particular style of quotes or dashes etc. putting me of although it seems to me I have read more than a few that were 'different'

Of course most of these were paper books because I have been reading paper books almost 20 times as long as I have been reading ebooks. Would that make a difference in perception perhaps?

Helen

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Probably most of the books I have bought from unfamiliar authors have intrigued me before I opened the cover. A brief synopsis or excerpt on the back cover, would be my starting point. Then depending on the price perhaps I might look at the prologue, first paragraph and a random page or two.

Generally I have liked them. I can't recall a particular style of quotes or dashes etc. putting me of although it seems to me I have read more than a few that were 'different'

Of course most of these were paper books because I have been reading paper books almost 20 times as long as I have been reading ebooks. Would that make a difference in perception perhaps?

Helen

I think it would be harder to read non-conventional stuff on an ereader. I don't have problems with double spaces between paragraphs (which happens for ereaders for some books or shorts and there are various technical reasons for it) but the lack of quotes might make it very unreadable for me on an ereader.

The books that didn't have quotes that I did read were back in the paper days. I haven't come across any on ereader.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

I think it would be harder to read non-conventional stuff on an ereader. I don't have problems with double spaces between paragraphs (which happens for ereaders for some books or shorts and there are various technical reasons for it) but the lack of quotes might make it very unreadable for me on an ereader.

The books that didn't have quotes that I did read were back in the paper days. I haven't come across any on ereader.

I'm pretty sure I have, but don't recall what. I have passed on some books with headers because I wasn't too determined to read them, and have read quite a few despite headers etc. I can't recall abandoning an ebook for any other reason than lack of interest. (My first library book had headers and I didn't finish it).

If the book itself is interesting I get over most things

Helen

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I'm pretty sure I have, but don't recall what. I have passed on some books with headers because I wasn't too determined to read them, and have read quite a few despite headers etc. I can't recall abandoning an ebook for any other reason than lack of interest. (My first library book had headers and I didn't finish it).

If the book itself is interesting I get over most things

Helen

Agreed. I did read the Charlie Huston that had no quotes. I even checked the second out of the library. The first book was a decent UF thriller and I enjoyed it despite some flaws, but I found upon starting the second one that I wasn't interested enough to bother and it had more to do with the character actions than formatting or even the constant cursing.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Agreed. I did read the Charlie Huston that had no quotes. I even checked the second out of the library. The first book was a decent UF thriller and I enjoyed it despite some flaws, but I found upon starting the second one that I wasn't interested enough to bother and it had more to do with the character actions than formatting or even the constant cursing.

I have read 4 Charlie Huston books, 3 Joe Pitt and 1 Hank. I never noticed the lack of quotation marks. I had to go and check the ones I have and the look inside the book at amazon just to see.

Even being aware of them now, I doubt it will bother me when I read another. (I much prefer Joe PITT)

I have a hard time seeing Charlie Huston as pretentious, but I have never met him so who knows.

Helen

[DiapDealer]

He HAS to be pretentious. There's just no other possible explanation.
(thank god I cancelled my dinner plans with him)

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I have read 4 Charlie Huston books, 3 Joe Pitt and 1 Hank. I never noticed the lack of quotation marks. I had to go and check the ones I have and the look inside the book at amazon just to see.

Even being aware of them now, I doubt it will bother me when I read another. (I much prefer Joe PITT)

I have a hard time seeing Charlie Huston as pretentious, but I have never met him so who knows.

Helen

I exchanged emails with him. I'd say he's flamboyant and a bit dramatic, but not really pretentious. Of course, it was just one or two emails and he did like to curse.

That is funny that you didn't notice. It drove me a bit nuts. I read the vamp ones. Something Dead...Dead After Dark? Good as Dead? I don't remember the titles. It was a good read for sure. I think it was his relationship with his girlfriend that bugged me.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

He HAS to be pretentious. There's just no other possible explanation.
(thank god I cancelled my dinner plans with him)

Does that mean he is free to have dinner with me? I will buy.

Helen

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

I exchanged emails with him. I'd say he's flamboyant and a bit dramatic, but not really pretentious. Of course, it was just one or two emails and he did like to curse.

That is funny that you didn't notice. It drove me a bit nuts. I read the vamp ones. Something Dead...Dead After Dark? Good as Dead? I don't remember the titles. It was a good read for sure. I think it was his relationship with his girlfriend that bugged me.

Haha. I think you have him confused with Charlaine Harris on the titles. The girlfriend who he can save but doesn't want to make into a vampire is a not an uncommon thing in Urban fantasy. Anyway I like him pretentions and all.

Helen