A serious topic

[mtravellerh]

Originally Posted by pshrynk

So, what does everyon think the future will look like? Independent authors , self-publishing like Steve Jordan and Richard Herley? Or Big Pub continuing to have a hold on everything with better DRM schema that aren't as onerous?

(I think we are all aware that current DRM schema just won't work.)

One big minus for the self-publishing is the fact that the editor is absent. Do you know how books would look if all of them were written AND published by the same person?

Writers, except for the persons here present, of course, tend to have an oversized ego and if given the opportunity to let it all hang out, they would.

[krisk]

Originally Posted by pshrynk

Ah. Well, that's why I think an Authors' Coop might have some benefit. But don't ask me how it would be run, because I'm not a really good IT type. Something to do with the interwebs, I'm pretty certain, but that would be the details that would be hammered out by folks smarter than I.

So, the idea would be, join a coop, submit your work, get feedback from other members, get to the point of "publishing", have the coop put out the PR in it's blog, make tons of money and retire at 40. Or something like that.

Kind of like an online writers workshop? (every time you write "coop" I think of chickens! co-op!)

[Lady Blue]

Originally Posted by krisk

Kind of like an online writers workshop? (every time you write "coop" I think of chickens! co-op!)

A chicken co-op . . . I like that. Sorry

[pshrynk]

Originally Posted by krisk

Kind of like an online writers workshop? (every time you write "coop" I think of chickens! co-op!)

Around here, the co-op has become so normal that the hyphen has been dropped. Sorry.

[krisk]

*wince*

[vivaldirules]

I'm sorry but I'm starting to detect that this thread is becoming less than serious. Let's keep on track, shall we?

And let me say that I have no issues with DRM as it is currently implemented by, for example, Sony. So I see no reason why I should give support to an alternative system. I have dozens of ebook titles that will become "stranded" if and when Sony walks away from the format, for example. And I hope to be able to buy many, many more. If that keeps publishers content so that they publish the books and so that authors can be properly paid when people read their works, then I'm more than happy.

(ducks rapidly to avoid hateful thoughts directed this way)

[mtravellerh]

Originally Posted by vivaldirules

I'm sorry but I'm starting to detect that this thread is becoming less than serious. Let's keep on track, shall we?

Yes, dad!

And let me say that I have no issues with DRM as it is currently implemented by, for example, Sony. So I see no reason why I should give support to an alternative system. I have dozens of ebook titles that will become "stranded" if and when Sony walks away from the format, for example. And I hope to be able to buy many, many more. If that keeps publishers content so that they publish the books and so that authors can be properly paid when people read their works, then I'm more than happy.

(ducks rapidly to avoid hateful thoughts directed this way)

The if and when is the problem here, I guess. Sony has already changed its DRM system once. Amazon has also done so as a music vendor. So where is my guarantee? Or are books an essentially volatile product right now? Sorry, but I DO reread my books from time to time.

[pshrynk]

Originally Posted by vivaldirules

I'm sorry but I'm starting to detect that this thread is becoming less than serious. Let's keep on track, shall we?

And let me say that I have no issues with DRM as it is currently implemented by, for example, Sony. So I see no reason why I should give support to an alternative system. I have dozens of ebook titles that will become "stranded" if and when Sony walks away from the format, for example. And I hope to be able to buy many, many more. If that keeps publishers content so that they publish the books and so that authors can be properly paid when people read their works, then I'm more than happy.

(ducks rapidly to avoid hateful thoughts directed this way)

I think that that is the essential point that often gets overlooked with DRM debates. Possibly because publisher reps don't hang out with us, more's their loss. Keeping the people who provide content happy is a very important task. But what will that look like?

[larisa0001]

Originally Posted by pshrynk

The lounge is being accused of being a silly place. So, I thought I'd present a topic that is important to all of us and have a discussion just to show that it can be done.

What would be a useable and acceptable replacement for the current process of copyright protection, known as DRM? This would have to satisfy all parties, allow for fair compensation for authors, and keep everyone from becoming criminals.

The honor system. I am actually serious. No amount of DRM will keep a determined hacker from ripping off a copyrighted work. But DRM will keep an honest citizen from buying a book, if they know that they won't be able to read it once the device they're reading it on goes obsolete. So DRM as we know it is useless for the purpose for which it has ostensibly been created, and actually harms authors.

In contrast, the honor system - i.e. sell the book in a DRM-free format - treats all purchasers of the book in question as honest people rather than criminals. Will it mean that some people will copy the book? Sure it will. But will this actually result in decreased sales? I'm not so sure of that.

I am a musician, and I sell CD's at festivals. All my CD's are Creative Commons licensed, and I explain this licensing to the people who buy the disc from me. I tell them that they have my blessing to place my music on any file-sharing server, to copy it for their friends, to use it for whatever purpose they wish, provided they credit me. This has resulted in much wider exposure for my music, and a lot of performance and recording opportunities I would never have had otherwise.

Do people pirate my CD? Of course they do. Would the person who ended up with a pirated copy have bought my CD otherwise? I'm not so sure. But once they heard my music, maybe they'd want to buy my next one. Piracy is advertising. Every pirate placing your creative work on a filesharing service is advertising your work by word-of-mouth - the best kind of advertising there is.

I believe Cory Doctorow has said something similar about e-books - and his books are selling just fine. I don't read much sci-fi, so I just downloaded a copy of one of his books for free (from his own site, legally). While this is not the sort of stuff I'd want to buy for myself, I now know what it's like - and I can recommend it to friends who may enjoy it, and who will buy it. As mentioned, Doctorow's books appear to be doing just fine, despite the fact that he's giving away free e-books - or, possibly, because of it.

Most people are honest. At various festivals, I have had people insist on paying me for a disc even when I wanted to give it away. If people know the money actually goes to the artist, they'll want to pay. What people don't want to do is pay oodles of money to some faceless corporation that will not ever compensate the author.

Another unrelated issue: the terms of copyright protection are ridiculously long. Why does creative work stay locked up for 70 years after the author's death? Are we hoping to incentivize the author to write more from the grave? If copyrights lasted as long as patents do - 20 years - any kind of DRM would be a lot more tolerable, as things would enter the public domain more easily. Surely 20 years of royalty payments is enough to incentivize anyone to write?

[ruskie]

Originally Posted by pshrynk

Maybe what is needed is an e-pub business plan where authors can put their books up in a coop fashion, with a small percentage of sales going to the coop to cover expenses. Of course, this is how publishing houses got started way back in the day.

I thought http://www.lulu.com Allows for that?

[LazyScot]

What is theft? The reason I ask is that for most people theft/stealing basically means taking something from someone so that they no longer have it. Copying is not seen as theft, as the person still has the original item.

I personally like the idea of Social DRM, but it comes with an expectation and acceptance that society views the idea of theft as taking an "un-authorised" copy.

I hope, and believe, that over time (decades, probably) society will come to understand and accept when copying is theft (and, of course, when it isn't).

(Charlie Stross has an old blog entry related to the economics of ebooks and why it is broken, as well as a more recent one on why he doesn't take money on his website.)

As for the issue of duration of copyright, the historical perspective (and the moves related to that) are quite interesting. It seems to start short after lengthy debates that indicate why it should be short, and very slowly increases the length. One thing that has intrigued me, is the difference in duration between copyright and patent life...

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

My feeling is that DRM is an ultimately useless tool, since it can be so easily circumvented. Exactly the same goes for social DRM... it really doesn't prevent piracy, since DRM documentation can still be broken or stripped out.

Larisa's comment about consumer honesty is on the right track, but it needs something specific from the author/publisher's end as well: A product that the consumer sees as worthy to be purchased, and therefore not to be taken advantage of.

It's called "value-added" products. Sell something that the customer likes and appreciates you for providing, and that customer is less likely to steal from you, nor to aid others in stealing from you. That means providing quality products, fair prices, and other things that make a customer feel they are respected and appreciated themselves.

This has been the underlying mantra of my Right Brane selling model since the beginning, and in my case, it works well. Other variations of it could be used for more famous authors, major publishing houses and boutique shops.

Two other things to consider here--One: The idea of DRM is directly tied to the concept of a book as a physical product to be secured. I've pointed out before that the e-book, being an electronic file, is a unique product, and may demand a selling paradigm that is nothing like the paradigms we use today for any other product (or a unique combination of paradigms, say, a mix of literature and television program paradigms, or of lit and end-cap selling).

Two: We are right at the tipping point of the future author/publisher/consumer/product relationship... all four are changing at dizzying speed, and it's very hard to see how any of them will shape up, together or separately. I expect to see years of experimentation across the board, until a few more successful methods rise to the top, and are adapted by the majority of parties. DRM is only one tool, often used because companies do not know of the other tools. As the other tools surface, and some prove their worth, they will be seen as effective alternatives to DRM.

[pshrynk]

You always sum these things up better than I, Steve!

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Just doin' my part.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

I mentioned selling paradigms before, and I've singled out literature, television (programs), and end-cap products. Here's another product that might have similarity implications to e-book selling: Candy.

Think about how candy is sold: Often a last-minute thought, a treat at check-out, or (heh) something to shut up that unruly toddler. They can be sold singly or in bulk. They are cheap, bought with "mad money" as an incidental. You largely know from the label what you're getting. The cost is so low, that you won't even mind if it turns out to be a flavor you're not that fond of (you sure won't trek back to the store for a refund because you didn't like it!). Yes, they can be stolen... they're pocket-sized. But in fact, candy makes so much money through sales like this, that all other considerations are moot.

Here's another: The latest trend in end-cap products, the "gift card wall." Huge end-caps or kiosks filled with prepaid cards to spend at this restaurant or that B&N or online store. Buying these cards for others allows you to pass on an easy gift, which gives the recipient some choice in what they ultimately buy. It is pre-paid by the gifter, so the ricipient does not have to pay at time of purchase, making the item's cost less important at time of sale (this applies, even if you bought the card for yourself), and therefore reducing the inclination to steal from a vendor.

So think about how e-books could be packaged and sold based on those paradigms. Then think about all the other selling paradigms out there, and how many of them might apply to e-books. I believe this simple exercise has not been done by the majority of e-book sellers out there, including the Big Pubs. And until it is done, we won't know how many successful selling models there may be for e-books. That is what we should be concentrating on, in order to prove that DRM is the least effective model for e-book selling.