Sony Reader video review at PCMag.com - Page 2

tribble · 07-13-2006, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmeister0

The only thing I find disconcerting is the flash to a full black screen as part of the page change.

Actually, i read somewhere that this kind of pageturn is not even necessary. You could change the eink image without using the black intermediate. But that would leave slight ghost images from the last page. I personally would like to see, how bad those ghostings are, because the page turns are supposed to be faster aswell. (might depend on the processor, and could have been a development product, where this was mentioned)

rmeister0 · 07-14-2006, 10:47 AM

That ghosting was one of the complaints I heard about the Libre.

yvanleterrible · 07-14-2006, 11:18 AM

I wonder if they could change the "flash to black" for a "flash to white", it would look less obvious. I wonder also if the flashing counts as a page turn energywise.

yvanleterrible · 07-14-2006, 11:33 AM

Hey guys ! instead of wayting on every company to see what they come up with, why don't we come up with a collective list of prerequisites and post it to them telling what the thing should be like ?

NatCh · 07-14-2006, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

I wonder if they could change the "flash to black" for a "flash to white", it would look less obvious. I wonder also if the flashing counts as a page turn energywise.

From comments I've seen from the HanLin folks (same actual screen on theirs), they basically have two type of screen refresh available: Full and Half (for lack of better terms).

Apparently the Half is faster, uses lest power and doesn't flash to black, but it has some ghosting.

The Full is the black flasher, its slower, and does use more power, but has no ghosting issues.

I think flashing to white would be less obtrusive too. I'm guessing that since they all do the black, that there must be some reason for it rather than white. I'm hoping that the reason isn't that it just never occured to anyone to try the other way.

@yvanleterrible:
I think we've got a couple of threads along those lines, actually.

Now I know I saw them around here somewhere ....

NatCh · 07-14-2006, 12:01 PM

Um, didn't he say launch would be September, and then correct himself to October? Looks like August won't happen then.

tribble · 07-14-2006, 12:32 PM

september earliest, i even heard december somwhere.

yvanleterrible · 07-14-2006, 01:15 PM

Sony got the reader to the shows as last december, seems logical that it'd come out a year later.

dugbug · 07-14-2006, 02:08 PM

On the flashing:

The flashing is something you will have to live with for all E-Ink screens. They have to invert the old image (which means you are going from mostly white to mostly black). This is done to ensure all of the pigment chips are properly aligned for the new image.

Otherwise "ghosting" happens, where some pixels refused to change.

E-Ink shaved a second off of this compared to previous generation displays. Its visually annoying, very slow, and one of the big complaints about their devices.

dugbug · 07-14-2006, 02:12 PM

The flashing is something you will have to live with for all E-Ink screens. They have to invert the old image (which means you are going from mostly white to mostly black). This is done to ensure all of the pigment chips are properly aligned for the new image.

Otherwise "ghosting" happens, where some pixels refused to change.

E-Ink shaved a second off of this compared to previous generation displays. Its visually annoying, very slow, and one of the big complaints about their devices.

ath · 07-15-2006, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugbug

Otherwise "ghosting" happens, where some pixels refused to change.

Does anyone know how eInk 'paper' ages? Will there be an increasing number of 'stuck' ink cells over time? Does the carrier medium thicken or evaporate or otherwise change behaviour? Will ink cells dissolve, and the 'ink' leak over the page?

Noone bothers much about the life-time of flash memory anymore, because the number of writes is now comfortably high ... what about number of 'pages' an eInk paper can show ... ?

dugbug · 07-15-2006, 01:37 PM

ath,
The pigment chips are all isolated within pixel compartments (bubbles) underneath the display glass. They won't leak out.

E-Ink keeps age info close to the vest. Someone in their tech support forum asked that very question and didn't really get an answer. But since the libres are still working great, I don't think its an issue.

ath · 07-16-2006, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugbug

ath,
The pigment chips are all isolated within pixel compartments (bubbles) underneath the display glass. They won't leak out.

I was thinking that the integrity of those 'pixel' microcapsules containing the pigment subcapsules might be lost eventually. (I think there has been a note somewhere that spacing between upper and lower surface needed to be maintained. An accidental hit might do it ...) If it happens, the subcapsules would probably slobber around on the electrode layer, and that might upset the working of the pixels in that area. But perhaps that was older technology, and the problem is gone now.

Another possibility is that the subcapsules lose their charge ...

Quote:

But since the libres are still working great, I don't think its an issue.

If it is one, it will come to light fairly soon. I don't know how keen Sony would be to adopt unproven technology, but I dare say the devices would have at least 5 years of life on general principles.

diabloNL · 07-16-2006, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ath

I was thinking that the integrity of those 'pixel' microcapsules containing the pigment subcapsules might be lost eventually. (I think there has been a note somewhere that spacing between upper and lower surface needed to be maintained. An accidental hit might do it ...) If it happens, the subcapsules would probably slobber around on the electrode layer, and that might upset the working of the pixels in that area. But perhaps that was older technology, and the problem is gone now.

Another possibility is that the subcapsules lose their charge ...

If it is one, it will come to light fairly soon. I don't know how keen Sony would be to adopt unproven technology, but I dare say the devices would have at least 5 years of life on general principles.

5 years would be more than enough. Within 5 years I will own a 32 bit color e-ink device that you can roll up.

CommanderROR · 07-16-2006, 05:59 AM

Seriously cool Avatar diabloNL...you and tribble should do a contests...^^

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07-14-2006, 10:47 AM	#17
rmeister0 Addict Posts: 270 Karma: 298 Join Date: Mar 2005	That ghosting was one of the complaints I heard about the Libre.

07-14-2006, 11:18 AM	#18
yvanleterrible Reborn Paper User Posts: 8,616 Karma: 15446734 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Que Nada Device: iPhone8, iPad Air	I wonder if they could change the "flash to black" for a "flash to white", it would look less obvious. I wonder also if the flashing counts as a page turn energywise.

07-14-2006, 11:33 AM	#19
yvanleterrible Reborn Paper User Posts: 8,616 Karma: 15446734 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Que Nada Device: iPhone8, iPad Air	Hey guys ! instead of wayting on every company to see what they come up with, why don't we come up with a collective list of prerequisites and post it to them telling what the thing should be like ?

07-14-2006, 12:01 PM	#21
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Um, didn't he say launch would be September, and then correct himself to October? Looks like August won't happen then.

07-14-2006, 12:32 PM	#22
tribble iLiad Maniac Posts: 1,382 Karma: 2369 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Germany Device: Bookeen Opus (i love that thing) and iPad (what an irony)	september earliest, i even heard december somwhere.

07-14-2006, 01:15 PM	#23
yvanleterrible Reborn Paper User Posts: 8,616 Karma: 15446734 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Que Nada Device: iPhone8, iPad Air	Sony got the reader to the shows as last december, seems logical that it'd come out a year later.

07-14-2006, 02:08 PM	#24
dugbug Addict Posts: 206 Karma: 1723 Join Date: May 2006 Device: Kindle	On the flashing: The flashing is something you will have to live with for all E-Ink screens. They have to invert the old image (which means you are going from mostly white to mostly black). This is done to ensure all of the pigment chips are properly aligned for the new image. Otherwise "ghosting" happens, where some pixels refused to change. E-Ink shaved a second off of this compared to previous generation displays. Its visually annoying, very slow, and one of the big complaints about their devices.

07-14-2006, 02:12 PM	#25
dugbug Addict Posts: 206 Karma: 1723 Join Date: May 2006 Device: Kindle	The flashing is something you will have to live with for all E-Ink screens. They have to invert the old image (which means you are going from mostly white to mostly black). This is done to ensure all of the pigment chips are properly aligned for the new image. Otherwise "ghosting" happens, where some pixels refused to change. E-Ink shaved a second off of this compared to previous generation displays. Its visually annoying, very slow, and one of the big complaints about their devices.

07-15-2006, 01:37 PM	#27
dugbug Addict Posts: 206 Karma: 1723 Join Date: May 2006 Device: Kindle	ath, The pigment chips are all isolated within pixel compartments (bubbles) underneath the display glass. They won't leak out. E-Ink keeps age info close to the vest. Someone in their tech support forum asked that very question and didn't really get an answer. But since the libres are still working great, I don't think its an issue.

07-16-2006, 05:59 AM	#30
CommanderROR eink fanatic Posts: 2,022 Karma: 4924 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Germany Device: STAReBOOK, iRex Iliad, Sony 505, Kindle 2	Seriously cool Avatar diabloNL...you and tribble should do a contests...^^

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