Neil Gaiman (criminally) sexual deviant?

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by rantanplan

If he was dead already, I could kind of understand that you may ignore the private life of an author, but buying Gaiman's books directly supports his "lifestyle".

I don't care.

(To be clear, I don't think I've ever read a book by Gaiman and am not planning to; but if I wanted to read one, I certainly wouldn't care what the author is like as a person or what they have done or not done in real life.)

[Deskisamess]

From a personal standpoint, I can't "not" be affected by these types of accusations. It's one thing to have different views on sexual behaviors. It's another to ignore legitimate accusations of criminal activity.

I wouldn't watch The Brown's when Deshaun Watson was playing, I was glad when Trevor Bauer was gone from the Indians/Guardians. If even a part of what they were accused of was true, it made it impossible to support them in any way.

That said, I don't go looking for info on authors or artists and their personal lives. But when their behavior is such that it goes public, it's hard to ignore. I don't read Gaiman's books, but if I did, this news would most likely be the end of my supporting him. I just wouldn't be able to compartmentalize.

[JSWolf]

The real question is has Gaiman broken the law? If not, then time to move on.

[Critteranne]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The real question is has Gaiman broken the law? If not, then time to move on.

Not everything that is wrong or immoral is also illegal. People can choose to stop having anything to do with an author because that author was simply horrible to others. Readers are allowed to do so. There are authors I avoid because they bullied fans or reviewers. Or because they were phobic in some way. They're not going to trial for that -- but it was still bad behavior.

Even if the acts are illegal, pressing charges against a celebrity is often next to impossible. There is the statute of limitations. There are acts taking place in multiple jurisdictions. There are prosecutors who often refuse to take on a case. There are victims who don't want to press charges because they know they will be bullied on the stand, harassed by fans, etc.

Fans are distraught because of this article, and they have every right to be. In many cases, they loved Gaiman because no one else was writing stories that reflected their lives or moved them that much. They have to wonder if he was being fake. And now, they have to make the very personal decision of what to do next.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The real question is has Gaiman broken the law? If not, then time to move on.

Have you read the Vulture article in full?

[astrangerhere]

John Scalzi, who was called for comment when the Vulture article was being written, reposted one of his old essays yesterday in response to the whole thing. Of note, he was willing to comment for the story but was unable to get it scheduled due to being on a deadline. He has expressed nothing but compassion and sympahy for "the women Neil has harmed." But he wanted to make an overarching point - don't idolize the people who make the art you love.

https://whatever.scalzi.com/2024/08/...anyone-really/

I will add, though, that I can understand putting your head in the sand about the bad things artists have done to individuals, even if systematic.

But failing to acknowledge when artists are actively engaged in trying to harm entire minority communities (yes, I am absolutely talking about the Harry Potter lady), that continuing to support those people financially is helping them to keep their platform to continue doing that harm.

There is zero nuance to what Gaiman is accused of here. There is only nuance in our varied responses to it. You are what you chose to throw your money at, and that's totally up to you. You want to be uninformed or simply uncaring? Go for it. But its somewhat reductive to tell everyone else they have to shut up about it.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by astrangerhere

John Scalzi … wanted to make an overarching point - don't idolize the people who make the art you love.

Indeed don't idolise anyone.

[rantanplan]

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

From a personal standpoint, I can't "not" be affected by these types of accusations. It's one thing to have different views on sexual behaviors. It's another to ignore legitimate accusations of criminal activity.

The same for me, and considering the sexual abuse of Calliope in Sandman (comic / audio play / Netflix episode) it's hard not to see parallels between his writing and his actions. And even if this were just a coincidence, for me his writing is now, or rather since last year, poisoned for me.

Similarly to @astrangerhere, once I noticed all the classism and antisemitism in HP I couldn't unsee it. And then they outed themself as a TERF and things became even worse.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by meeera

If you read the Gaiman allegations, they include activities that constitute child sexual abuse also. (Sexual activity with a child awake and in the same room)

Unless there is evidence that the child was actively involved which does not seem to be the case, from what I remember of history, sexual activity with children in the room was very common considering that many families lived in very small dwellings.

And since he has not been tried in a court and convicted, whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Let's not go for the old there's no smoke without a fire response.

[astrangerhere]

Originally Posted by DNSB

And since he has not been tried in a court and convicted, whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Let's not go for the old there's no smoke without a fire response.

I promise you this story was written six months ago and it took that long to get through the army of lawyers to make sure it had been fact-checked so that Gaiman, et al could not sue them to Mars and back. If it got through legal, there is absolutely more than the whiff of smoke.

[kandwo]

Having read most of the article, I hope that the allegations aren't true (for the sake of the victims). It was a hard read.

That said, he hasn't been convicted of any crime yet as far as I know.

And in the end, I agree with the people who separate the art from the artist. But I probably wouldn't want to read his books or watch anything he's been involved with in a way that would make him money if the allegations turn out to be true.

[haertig]

I try not to make judgement based on things reported on the internet. The internet is better at whipping up outraged mobs with unproven allegations than it is about reporting facts and evidence. There are a lot of people who seem to jump on every bandwagon that passes by when they see it is being driven by an outraged person. I don't understand this kind of thinking, but "the outrage bandwagon" seems to be a big draw for many.

[Sirtel]

For me it doesn't matter whether the things Gaiman allegedly did will be proven or not. An author's behavior or personality plays no part whatsoever in my decision to read or not read their books. They can be murderers, rapists, serial killers or just horrible persons in real life; they can be veritable saints who deeply care about other people and regularly help and support those in need. It doesn't make me either more or less likely to read their work. I read a book if I want to read it, no matter who wrote it.

Am I supporting the villains in their vile deeds if I continue to buy their works? Yeah, I guess so. Does that make me a horrible person as well? Probably. Will I lose any sleep over it? No.

I don't justify or condone anyone's bad behavior. I fully acknowledge buying their books makes me an aider and abetter if they're alive. I still read what I want to read.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by meeera

Have you read the Vulture article in full?

I am unable to read the Vulture article. Articles that require a subscription should not be linked.

I did find a link that works.

https://web.archive.org/web/20250114...man-madoc.html

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by meeera

Have you read the Vulture article in full?

No. It was the first time I can remember visiting their pages and yet I got a banner asking me to subscribe since I had exceeded my monthly limit. I checked and no cookies from the site were found in any of the 4 browsers I tried. I then tried a Tor connection and the same result. For my final test, I checked with my laptop, an Android tablet and an ereader at a Waves coffee shop. Still no joy.