DRM, DeDRM, and ebook formats

[issybird]

Originally Posted by ratinox

You are correct, but does it matter? I think it doesn't matter much. J. Random Shareholder doesn't care if my Kindle DX is being used to read books or if its just a placeholder for purchases and downloads and DRM-stripping. They care about their stock dividends, and they care about actions which could (will) reduce those dividends.

Amazon could offer some kind of discount or rebate to us legacy device owners to get us to "upgrade". I can see Amazon not doing this for several reasons. Selling these devices at a loss is a hit to the bottom line which share holders don't want. Not all of us legacy device owners will take that action (I wouldn't trade my DX for a new Paperwhite at any price) which is a long-term customer loss which is another hit to the bottom line. Are Amazon willing to take these hits? D&T will stick around until the answer to this question is "yes".

You are ignoring the evidence of things that have already happened in order to engage in specious speculation, it seems to me. First, Amazon has already disallowed D&T on its newest Kindles, a clear indicator that it's on the chopping block. If not, why bother? My own speculation based on that is that the profit from data is (probably far) greater than any profits resulting from D&T to legacy devices. Amazon stock doesn't pay dividends, btw. Facts matter.

Second, Amazon has had a program to get those whose devices would no longer connect to the store to upgrade. Again, it's already done that. So why not again? And saying that Kindles are sold at a loss is speculation which I'm not sure is supported by the prices of comparable devices. The ship may have sailed on upgrading your DX, however, as that fell under the earlier program.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

As I said earlier, they could also leave D&T in place for non-wifi-capable Kindles, and remove it for all the others.

The only non-wifi Kindles have already been dropped (Kindle 1 and 2)

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

The only non-wifi Kindles have already been dropped (Kindle 1 and 2)

Dropped from what? I have a second generation Kindle registered to my account and D&T still works with it as the target device.

[ratinox]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

The only non-wifi Kindles have already been dropped (Kindle 1 and 2)

My Kindle DX and DXG beg to disagree: they are Whispernet only and I can still download books for them.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

The problem with those old Kindles is that the books delivered to them have very low-res images (maps in many novels, for example).

Those older Kindles also have LoRes displays. IMHO Good enough for text, and lines. (My EZReader resolution was fine for viewing text, the screen became to small for the type size I now used .

Some of us grew up when there was 13" 40 column (color) text monitors. Now that was NOT a good resolution for reading.
Do we really need a 1 size fits all reader? You like Maps. I rarely look close at them (Mostly: 'Oh, that is South or over the Mountains'). Fine. There should be devices that need both our needs and budgets.

[ratinox]

Originally Posted by issybird

You are ignoring the evidence of things that have already happened in order to engage in specious speculation, it seems to me. First, Amazon has already disallowed D&T on its newest Kindles, a clear indicator that it's on the chopping block. If not, why bother? My own speculation based on that is that the profit from data is (probably far) greater than any profits resulting from D&T to legacy devices.

A technical and cost reason is an effort to unify the Kindle and Kindle Fire code bases. Google killed off USB storage in Android years ago so that's how Kindle Fires work. 2024 Kindles work the same way as Kindle Fires work (only MTP). This would reduce the person-hours costs for maintaining current devices and for developing future devices, especially if Amazon decide to go all-in with their Android-based Fire OS on future Kindles.

If this is the reason, or one of the reasons, then not having D&T (I can't call it a loss since these devices never had it to lose) is an opportunity cost.

Amazon stock doesn't pay dividends, btw. Facts matter.

Facts do matter, and I did not know this fact. I will reconsider based on this, and endeavor to remember it.

Second, Amazon has had a program to get those whose devices would no longer connect to the store to upgrade. Again, it's already done that. So why not again? And saying that Kindles are sold at a loss is speculation which I'm not sure is supported by the prices of comparable devices. The ship may have sailed on upgrading your DX, however, as that fell under the earlier program.

I did not mean to suggest that Kindles are sold at retail are sold at a loss. It was the hypothetical discount program sales which might be loss leaders.

[John F]

Originally Posted by ratinox

You are correct, but does it matter? I think it doesn't matter much. J. Random Shareholder doesn't care if my Kindle DX is being used to read books or if its just a placeholder for purchases and downloads and DRM-stripping. They care about their stock dividends, and they care about actions which could (will) reduce those dividends.

...

Amazon doesn't pay dividends (at least in the U.S.)

Edit: Oops, should have read through before posting.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by jhowell

Dropped from what? I have a second generation Kindle registered to my account and D&T still works with it as the target device.

Originally Posted by ratinox

My Kindle DX and DXG beg to disagree: they are Whispernet only and I can still download books for them.

What I meant was, support for those Kindle had been dropped by Amazon - as Whispernet no longer works for them. I beleive there was an offer of a cheap new Kindle for people still actively using them. They are the only non-wifi Kindles.

I do believe that D&T still works for them.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

What I meant was, support for those Kindle had been dropped by Amazon

…

I do believe that D&T still works for them.

Yes it does. So I won't swap it for a 2024 without D&T!
Here there is still a Mobile connection for the DXG (though I think mostly 2G's EDGE), but it's only good to set the time & date eventually. No "Whispernet". It has no WiFi.

[ratinox]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Yes it does. So I won't swap it for a 2024 without D&T!

And a large form factor panel.

[ratinox]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

What I meant was, support for those Kindle had been dropped by Amazon - as Whispernet no longer works for them. I beleive there was an offer of a cheap new Kindle for people still actively using them. They are the only non-wifi Kindles.

Which many of us with DX and DXG (which remain non-WiFi Kindles along with Kindle and Kindle 2) laughed at. We bought these devices specifically for the large 9.5" display panels. Offering to sell us 6" Kindles as replacements was an insult.

D&T does still work (I verified it at the beginning of this discussion) with the caveat that azw3 (KF8) does not because the legacy reader software does not support the azw3 container format.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by ratinox

Which many of us with DX and DXG (which remain non-WiFi Kindles along with Kindle and Kindle 2)

Apologies about the DX and DXG. I didn't remember that they were non-wifi too.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by ratinox

Offering to sell us 6" Kindles as replacements was an insult.

We have different thresholds for what constitutes an insult. For me, being offered a deep discount on the latest device because I own an ancient one doesn't constitute an insult. Insult me again, Amazon! Also noting that the "replacement" device was 6.8", significantly larger than 6" although obviously smaller than the DXG. It would be better to get the facts right, I note again.

[Frogm4n]

Originally Posted by ratinox

A technical and cost reason is an effort to unify the Kindle and Kindle Fire code bases. Google killed off USB storage in Android years ago so that's how Kindle Fires work. 2024 Kindles work the same way as Kindle Fires work (only MTP). This would reduce the person-hours costs for maintaining current devices and for developing future devices, especially if Amazon decide to go all-in with their Android-based Fire OS on future Kindles.

The tablets haven't been Kindle Fire for over a decade. They've just been Amazon Fire since the 2014 models.

The gulf between the Kindle OS and Fire OS remains quite enormous, despite Amazon adding MTP to the Kindles for USB storage.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by Frogm4n

The tablets haven't been Kindle Fire for over a decade. They've just been Amazon Fire since the 2014 models.

The gulf between the Kindle OS and Fire OS remains quite enormous, despite Amazon adding MTP to the Kindles for USB storage.

There was an e-ink Kindle model released in China based on Android called Migu X. It was a failure and didn’t replace the existing Kindle firmware. Much like Amazon tried to introduce Kindle for Android under Windows 11 to replace Kindle for PC and then recently killed it off instead.