Samhain Publishing is winding down and will close

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

The ranking rules change frequently and are highly proprietary/secret. They don't want people to game the system (for a time, an author could buy her own books and gift them and this would improve rankings hugely). There have been other games such as buying books at midnight when other books had slow sales, etc (this was during print times. Not so much ebooks).

Right now Amazon is favoring the big 5 or 6. I'm sure they are being paid handsomely for it.

Is it really favoring? They are promoting what sells. Now I don't know about you, but if I was in the book selling business I would also be more inclined to promote books that sell thousands or millions rather than those that sell hundreds. You want to know why. I would be business to make money. That is the way businesses work.
So it is not being rewarded, it is called making the most money.

As an author until you get to as you call them the outlier state the only person you have to earn money for is yourself and maybe the outlay of some cash to freelancers.
The outliers have staffs because they have worked their tails off and spent (probably good money to me and you) money on their books before they were even published.
One other thing about the outliers, I never once heard any of them complain about the big 5 getting extra benefits. This was before they hit it big. They knew what they were up against.

It may just be me but when I hear an author complaining about how other author got more than me, or why does that guy always get an ad spot and I can't, etc. It makes me think the author believes they are special and should get privileges others have earned. It also makes me not want to buy their books. I figure if they whine, they didn't put much effort into their books. (Yes, I actually tested that theory on a couple of the whiners, let's just say I could see why the advertisers turned them down. )

So, I get you are trying to explain why little authors and publishers have a hard time, but some of your wording is sounding like sour grapes. Quit playing the blame game. Accept the fact that those that make the money get promoted to help make others money.

[Blossom]

Samhain got lazy it wasn't Amazon. They expected more profit for little effort. They could have done several things such as promotions, freebies and updated their covers to go with the new trend. They had a strong customer base but they just lost interest.

Samhain didn't want to change or put more effort out that's the bottom line.



Sent from my XT1528

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

The big 5 have not lowered their prices--they have sales and control those sales, but I would not say they have lowered their prices overall. They just have a different strategy and now utilize the 2.99, 1.99 and 99 cent price points. They also utilize 14.99 for new releases (ebooks) and 9.99 quite frequently.

http://authorearnings.com/big-five-m...ebook-pricing/

The average price of a Big Five ebook had dropped from $10.31 in January 2016 to $8.67 in May 2016. This definitely caught our eye.

This wasn't the link I read before, but it seems to back up that the big 5 have dropped ebook prices. I imagine this contribute to the fall on sales of small PBH's and indies.

[pwalker8]

I suspect like most things, the issue is a combination of things. Some of it is that is that various authors/publishers had gotten use to Amazon doing the publicity and placement and were not ready to take up the slack when Amazon no longer felt to need to push indies and small publishers.

The other is that Amazon was using the indies and small publishers as leverage against the big publishers and to establish market share. Now that the big publishers have signed contracts and Amazon has little competition, they no longer feel the need to give away free publicity and as much focus on the indies and small publishers.

Some of it is that there was a flood of low quality ebooks with people trying to cash in and that made it more difficult for the quality indies and small publishers.

I'm sure there are more things as well.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

http://authorearnings.com/big-five-m...ebook-pricing/



This wasn't the link I read before, but it seems to back up that the big 5 have dropped ebook prices. I imagine this contribute to the fall on sales of small PBH's and indies.

That just indicates that lower priced Big 5 books are selling at the top no? Doesn't really indicate that they've dropped prices as a whole or anything. I can say for sure that in the genres I read that I haven't seen some sweeping price drop. They price just like they have been, when a book is out in Hard Cover the eBook is usually $12.99-$16.99, Trade PD $9.99-$12.99 and Mass Market $4.99-$8.99 (with the occasional $9.99).

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

but some of your wording is sounding like sour grapes. Quit playing the blame game.

We are having a civilized discussion. Please refrain from personal attacks.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I'm sure there are more things as well.

I'm sure there are tons. Some we've talked about and some we may not have even thought of.

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I suspect like most things, the issue is a combination of things. Some of it is that is that various authors/publishers had gotten use to Amazon doing the publicity and placement and were not ready to take up the slack when Amazon no longer felt to need to push indies and small publishers.

The other is that Amazon was using the indies and small publishers as leverage against the big publishers and to establish market share. Now that the big publishers have signed contracts and Amazon has little competition, they no longer feel the need to give away free publicity and as much focus on the indies and small publishers.

Some of it is that there was a flood of low quality ebooks with people trying to cash in and that made it more difficult for the quality indies and small publishers.

I'm sure there are more things as well.

I do agree with nearly all that you say. However I do think its hard to overestimate just how hard it is for a small publisher to keep up the same level of sales if Amazon chooses to promote them less. Amazon is the go to center of ebooks. I imagine it is extremely difficult to thrive without Amazon. But I do agree a lot with what you say.

[AnemicOak]

One thing that hurt Samhain (and probably similar pubs) are that they lost a lot of their bigger authors to both NY and to Self-pub.

Authors like Maya Banks, Lorelei James & Lauren Dane got big deals with Big 5 publishers and while Dane & James still published some with Samhain some it was much less frequently.

Authors like Moira Rogers (aka Kit Rocha, aka...) started self-publishing and were very successful at it and slowly moved all their publishing to self-pubbing.

Now it's not like those authors didn't get replaced by others, but the new authors coming in came into a much more competitive market and Samhain didn't seem to promote them any where near the way they did in the early days.


Also most/all(?) of the Big 5 launched their own digital first lines which were more direct competition for Samhain than the more traditional branches of those houses. The launch of Carina Press in particular not only attracted a lot of Samhain authors, but lost Samhain the services of Angie James as Executive Editor when she moved to a similar position at Carina (technically she quit to head up Quartet Press, but that never actually launched IIRC). Samhain seemed to have a different "feel" after James & some others left at least for me. They also soured some of the author community by playing some games on reversions of older titles a few years ago IIRC.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

We are having a civilized discussion. Please refrain from personal attacks.

That wasn't a personal attack, just an observation. And you are not a mod. You don't like something I say use the report button. Do not call a poster out. That is rude.
I will be using the report button both on your post and this one.

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

And you are not a mod.

No, but I know rudeness when I see it.

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

One thing that hurt Samhain (and probably similar pubs) are that they lost a lot of their bigger authors to both NY and to Self-pub.

Authors like Maya Banks, Lorelei James & Lauren Dane got big deals with Big 5 publishers and while Dane & James still published some with Samhain some it was much less frequently.

Authors like Moira Rogers (aka Kit Rocha, aka...) started self-publishing and were very successful at it and slowly moved all their publishing to self-pubbing.

Now it's not like those authors didn't get replaced by others, but the new authors coming in came into a much more competitive market and Samhain didn't seem to promote them any where near the way they did in the early days.


Also most/all(?) of the Big 5 launched their own digital first lines which were more direct competition for Samhain than the more traditional branches of those houses. The launch of Carina Press in particular not only attracted a lot of Samhain authors, but lost Samhain the services of Angie James as Executive Editor when she moved to a similar position at Carina (technically she quit to head up Quartet Press, but that never actually launched IIRC). Samhain seemed to have a different "feel" after James & some others left at least for me. They also soured some of the author community by playing some games on reversions of older titles a few years ago IIRC.

Thats a lot of info and you clearly know a lot of what happened. Other than Samhain, have other small publishers closed recently, or is it a single case? Judging from the data on authorearnings showing a drop in indie sales since May 2016, I would expect to see other closures, or at least problems. Is it only Romance publishers that have suffered?

[JSWolf]

I've not seen the prices of the BPHs in the US drop in price. This just isn't how they work.

If anyone can show this price drop, please do so.

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I've not seen the prices of the BPHs in the US drop in price. This just isn't how they work.

If anyone can show this price drop, please do so.

I posted the link above.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I've not seen the prices of the BPHs in the US drop in price. This just isn't how they work.

If anyone can show this price drop, please do so.

He linked author earnings. Which shows averages not real prices.
I have seen the Big 5 do price drops on their backlists. But only rarely on new books. Very rarely.
So nothing from the actual Big 5.