Who writes on an e-reader? Asking advice.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by deleted

I don't want to be rude but I'll just point out that the culture here seems a bit unusual. I asked a question, stated my use case, and specified who I wanted to hear from: people who write on ereaders.[...]

If you want useful answers it pays to use words according to current usage patterns. The term "e-reader" is - surprise surprise - typically used for those devices whose primary purpose is reading e-books. When most people on a site like this see "e-reader", the devices that first spring to mind are Kobo and Kindle and Nook, because that's what most of us are using and calling an "e-reader" - so it seemed perfectly obvious to me people were going to misinterpret your OP.

According to the front pages of their product websites: reMarkable is NOT referred to as an e-reader. Sony DPT is NOT referred to as an e-reader. They do this intentionally because they don't want people buying the devices with inappropriate expectations.

The Onyx Book Note Pro apparently does refer to itself as an e-reader, but its sales blurb is almost entirely focused on the ability to annotate rather than read e-books. (I would say that their blurbs make me think annotation - rather than initial composition - is the target for the device.)

I don't try to write on my Kobo e-readers because that would be completely stupid - they're just not made for it. I do use the highlighting capability as a form of annotation.

If I got my hands on an e-ink device with an operating system designed for writing I might try it out, but I'm not going out of my way for one. When I want to be mobile I have a notebook computer that does the job quite neatly without needing to learn new software specialised for dealing with e-ink screens.

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by deleted

[...] I'm excited by the potential to write on the ereader (I'm particularly considering Onyx Note Pro).

My work flow involves writing on the right hand side of a notebook, and keeping the notes that related to my writing on the left hand page. Many ereaders nowadays have the split screen function. I wonder if I can copy my method with an ereader...

Hmmm, interesting.

Watching The eBook Reader's "Onyx Boox Note Pro Full Review", it looks like it does all that (book on left-half, note-taking on right-half is shown at 7:15).

Looks to be a lot more fluid and responsive than what I've seen over the years.

Thanks for pointing out this info, I'll definitely have to keep an eye out in the future.

Originally Posted by deleted

[...] I know these people do exist because I found some on Reddit yesterday (actually, I still have my doubts))!

Yeah, perhaps an Onyx subreddit might be better, where owners of that specific device reside.

With the steep price point, I assume most people would go with the cheaper/more flexible options (color, handling video, or just plain laptop/2-in-1, [...]).

But hey, maybe there's some here that actually own the thing and can give more details.

[deleted]

Originally Posted by gmw

If you want useful answers it pays to use words according to current usage patterns. The term "e-reader" is - surprise surprise - typically used for those devices whose primary purpose is reading e-books.

Like I said, it was not my intention to be rude. I was making an observation. People jumped upon my thread and made tangential or contrary contributions [not everyone, mind you!] with little reference to my original statement.

There are probably a number of reasons why this is/was the case and I think it's interesting enough to be worthy of reflection.

As I said, there are a multitude of these devices and more on the way. It's not only Onyx Boox Note, which has already been out for several years. I'm just not that knowledgeable about the others... I assumed that these devices would be common knowledge to writers on a mobile readforum. I'm surprised that they may be far more niche than expected.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by deleted

[...] As I said, there are a multitude of these devices and more on the way. It's not only Onyx Boox Note, which has already been out for several years. I'm just not that knowledgeable about the others... I assumed that these devices would be common knowledge to writers on a mobile readforum. I'm surprised that they may be far more niche than expected.

They are fairly common knowledge to writers - just not under the heading of "e-readers". Ask about portable writing tools, rather than limiting yourself to things called e-readers (as the subject line appears to do) and you'll get more of relevant feedback.

I'm not trying to be rude either, just trying to explain the reactions you have seen. As writers, choosing the right words is part of our creed.

[Quoth]

Certainly it's POSSIBLE to create writing on a specialist eink device.

However a decent screen on a laptop, suitably orientated, with suitable applications will be less tiring and more productive.

I've used wordprocessing and text editing for forty years. I do have eink for annotation and I use two applications side by side on the laptop screen. One is a tabbed text editor with annotations from eink and resources and the other is a wordprocessor. It's not tiring and very productive. On occasion I've edited from 8 am to 11 pm, or written from 10 pm to 7 am.

The eink devices able to be used for rewriting are x3 price and lower productivity than a laptop. Absolutely the eink is less tiring and more productive than a laptop for PROOFING, that is mostly reading and some annotation. There is no way current eink screen technology and products can match a decent 1920 x 1080 non-glare laptop for content creation and editing.

BTW, if you rub for hours with tooth paste you can take the glare/shine off a laptop screen. Note that shiny is the cheapest kind of screen. But the desk lighting, desk height, chair, laptop position, keyboard quality etc are all equally important. As is work flow method.
I prop up the rear of my laptop by about 2cm and have the front edge slightly overhanging the desk. Having regular eye tests and suitable reading glasses is important for many. Also if you wear reading glasses the screen needs to be closer than is often seen in offices. Screen no larger than 17" to fit field of view (14" to 16" is best),

All these aspects are more important than eink vs non-glare LCD. Also it can't be emphasised enough that primarily writing and editing is COMPLETELY different to reading or proofing / annotating.
If you find an eink screen better for writing than a laptop with LCD, then you are using the laptop wrong.

Another reason for a laptop over a desktop is purely power cuts. I'd add a UPS if using a desktop. Since about 1998 I've only used desktops for specialist applications needing the PCI slots (earlier ISA slots) or gaming. All programming, writing, editing has been on laptops since then. I'm only on the 4th model, purchased November 2018. Previous one was 1600 x 1200 ultrasharp non-glare from April 2002 to November 2018, though it had some upgrades and replacement battery packs.

If you ask for advice you may get some strongly held opinions that differ from your own preconceived ideas. I did look at a sort of dedicated wordprocessor / typewriter using an eink screen, a little like a Canon Starwriter (though the later versions of those had built in colour inkjets). It was rubbish and sank without trace.

Really all these eink niche products are for annotation, they are inherently rubbish for content creation.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

Hmmm, interesting.

Watching The eBook Reader's "Onyx Boox Note Pro Full Review", it looks like it does all that (book on left-half, note-taking on right-half is shown at 7:15).

Looks to be a lot more fluid and responsive than what I've seen over the years.

Thanks for pointing out this info, I'll definitely have to keep an eye out in the future.



Yeah, perhaps an Onyx subreddit might be better, where owners of that specific device reside.

With the steep price point, I assume most people would go with the cheaper/more flexible options (color, handling video, or just plain laptop/2-in-1, [...]).

But hey, maybe there's some here that actually own the thing and can give more details.

Well, hell, I was mostly curious--that's why I asked if the thing actually existed. I thought of them as note-taking apps/devices, myself, but, hey, if someone WANTS to write on it...as I say to people that are always yammering on about whether it's "best" to use Scrivener or YWriter or LSBXE or Word or (insert some obscure writing app here)...it's whatever works for YOU.

My personal experience with writing on "eReaders" has been abysmal, but for "only" $450-$550, I guess that you too can use that Sony! :-)

Hitch

[deleted]

Well, thanks! These are good contributions.

While I still think stand in good stead re: semantics, as I think I made pretty clear the type of ereader I was referring to in my OP, nonetheless, I have to admit that I never adopted the nomenclature of Digital Note Paper.
Because 1) it felt like artificial market segmentation - they're e-reader tech with an improved ability to write (that's still my opinion); and 2) to be frank I thought the idea of using one to replace all your notepads was a bit of a gimmick (which is not to say it doesn't have its validity).

I was using an Onyx Boox M96 until it recently broke, for proofing and general reading.

@Quoth there's a new e-ink/typewriter called the Freewrite. Perhaps that's what you refer to. It looks to me unergonomic and terrible, with a tiny screen that basically sits flat on the desk. Nonetheless some people *seem* to be making good use of it.

My scepticism about these devices in general, and one of the reasons I came here to ask is that I worry that people buy them, rave about how great they are in their Amazon review and then a month later discover they're impractical and move onto the next new gadget.

By the way @Hitch, I not only write by hand, I also use Dragon Naturally for dictating my writing to the PC :P. For a variety of reasons this works best for me.

@gmw I can only imagine the hole I'd have dug if I'd mentioned "portable writing tools" as the topic. One can easily swing from too narrow to too broad .

[JSWolf]

PDF is NOT an electronic book format. It's an electronic document format at best.

[Deskisamess]

there's a new e-ink/typewriter called the Freewrite.

I think it has been around since 2014, according to Kickstarter.

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I thought of them as note-taking apps/devices, myself, but, hey, if someone WANTS to write on it...as I say to people that are always yammering on about whether it's "best" to use Scrivener or YWriter or LSBXE or Word or (insert some obscure writing app here)...it's whatever works for YOU.

Just this morning I was looking up some more information on the Onyx Boox Nova Pro, and found this good review:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ereader/com...boox_nova_pro/

There may be more specific info (reviews/input/comparisons) these subreddits too:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Onyx_Boox/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ereader/

Originally Posted by Hitch

Well, hell, I was mostly curious--that's why I asked if the thing actually existed.

Yeah, most of what I've seen was always the e-ink prototypes being shown off at CES... and then these devices never really hit the market in meaningful ways, like:

Color e-ink: Currently relegated to a lot of "tiny signage" (price tags) with a handful of "full-size signage" (like bus stops/subway maps).

but I'll admit, I don't really pay attention to the hardware market that closely (+ I would personally stay a million miles away from PDFs). :P

Originally Posted by Hitch

My personal experience with writing on "eReaders" has been abysmal, but for "only" $450-$550, I guess that you too can use that Sony! :-)

Yes, that's what I've seen as well.

The reviews usually say mixes of:

• Sluggish
• Crippling functionality
• Locked ecosystems
• No updates
  
  • Even in that Onyx subreddit, many of the users were saying most devices don't even get updates. Looks like the Nova Pro is a rare exception and had a major update to Android 9 a few months back.

For example, here's Goodereader's "Onyx Boox Max 3 vs Sony DPT-RP1 Digital Paper Comparison". Sony's is locked down completely + a complete pain to transfer documents.

... and then when you look at the prices: $400, $500, $850... these specialized e-inks aren't existing in a vacuum, they're competing with all the tablets/laptops.

Originally Posted by deleted

[...] I assumed that these devices would be common knowledge to writers on a mobile readforum. I'm surprised that they may be far more niche than expected.

Well, it could also be a sign that alternative devices may be a better bang for the buck... and you won't be stuck with a $400+ paperweight.

Like over the years, on The Digital Reader, incredibly over-priced/junky "writer's devices" occasionally pop up, like the Freewrite:

https://the-digital-reader.com/2018/...lphasmart-neo/
https://the-digital-reader.com/2016/...o-do-software/

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

I think it has been around since 2014, according to Kickstarter.

I have to admit, when I view it, it seems VERY clunky! I'm getting 1980's flashbacks! :-)

deleted wrote:

By the way @Hitch, I not only write by hand, I also use Dragon Naturally for dictating my writing to the PC :P. For a variety of reasons this works best for me.

I have a shoulder injury that is aggravated by overuse (keyboarding and mousing) and I use Dragon a lot, when I quite literally cannot pick up my arm to my digitizing tablet to continue mousing. When I'm in that state, which happens often around 2-3:00pm, Dragon saves my ass.

Hitch

[Deskisamess]

Speech to text works pretty well on my iPad, as long as I take my time. I'm not sure how well it would work for dictating long documents, but for short posts or messages, it's ok.

[skb]

Not really related to @deleted's e-ink question but...I have given a digital pen another try (I had an Echo pen but it blew up years ago). I have just bought a Aegir pen (Livescribe) and have found that it works easily with my previously redundant "dot" books. Also the Aegir looks and feels like a pen, rather than the Echo's...er, fatness.
You no longer have to use the MyScript app to get the OCR but I have to say that the OCR of the current app with the Aegir although pretty darn good is a bit clunky. Or, at least, it is on my Mac.

I must admit, I hadn't seen the Onyx Boox Note but it looks pretty cool. Although a bit pricey for us that live in the sticks. I didn't know such things existed! Who knew? As someone who prefers to write rather than type, like me, it does look attractive.

[rjwse@aol.com]

I suppose I should be grateful to receive so many replies, as so far (besides rjwse perhaps (is Calibre on an ereader?)) noone has admitted to writing with one. I know these people do exist because I found some on Reddit yesterday (actually, I still have my doubts))!
.....................
calibre has a built in ebook editor for altering and creating ebooks. calibre is also an ebook library and an ebook server. calibre also has one of the best (if not the very best) ebook readers. It is software, though, and must be run on a computer, either linux, windows, or apple. To the best of my knowledge it cannot be run on android, but it can be run on a chromebook in a linux window. I typically do all my reading of ebooks on an android phone and side-load the calibre epubs to it with a usb cable. I hope I said all this correctly. Best regards, Pop

[deleted]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

The reviews usually say mixes of:
[LIST][*] Sluggish[*] Crippling functionality[*] Locked ecosystems[*] No updates

A lot of the criticism of these devices, especially re: the writing experience, is for the older tech.

For those who are interested, here a number of other devices that are *designed* to be suitable for reading and writing.

Unless stated these are all 10.3" devices. There are smaller and larger devices too.

Onyx Boox:
Note line;

Max line (13.3")
Max/Note comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yab9I9eHSA

Nova line (7.8" - too small? though I'm considering it cause of price)
Proof of concept (writing small): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-Gj6U-yoaM

Boyue Likebook:
Mimas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0j6En4XFV0
Alita
Ares

Pocketbook : Inkpad X
https://www.pocketbook-int.com/int/p...tbook-inkpad-x

Rata:
SuperNote A5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgQ781GSQbE

EeWrite: E-pad
Looks a bit slow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0gpQWRb7uo

There are others too, but I don't know much about them. Didn't list Sony or Remarkable, been out for years and most people are familiar with their limitations. Remarkable 2 will be released in the future.

@rjwse@aol.com I use Calibre from time to time for library management. Didn't know it had editing and publishing tools.That's cool. I imagine it cuts several steps out of the normal process of preparing to convert to epub.