Editing suggestions for my book

[ApK]

Originally Posted by E.M.DuBois

At least point I’ll do anything.

Hire an editor.

[Lemurion]

There's an old saying in the writing world that you need to write a million words of crap before you can really start to move forward. The truth isn't quite so hard and fast, but the point is that you do need to pound out a whole ton of words ad the go over and over them to get it right.

My first novel took 15 years to write and edit.

My current one will be done in the next week at just under three months.

[E.M.DuBois]

Originally Posted by ApK

Hire an editor.

Correction: Anything I have the money to do. Which I don't have for hiring an editor.

[Cinisajoy]

Hi. I have another idea for you. It will probably be painful for the first couple of weeks.
Do you have any vices?
If you smoke, cut your consumption in half and put that money back
Repeat that process the next week.
Repeat until you are down to 2, then just quit.
Put all that money back for an editor.
Do you drink on a regular basis. Do the same as above.
Do you go out to eat several times a week/month?
Cut those times down. Put the money back.
What about sodas? Switch to water or tea or coffee. Put the money back to pay an editor.
Follow my advice and within a year, you will have a nice chunk of change. Heck even putting back just $5 a week will net you $250.

Oh one other thing, if you have cable, Dish or Direct call them and see what they can do.
We have Dish, I called about their flex packages. I have the cheapest DVR. My bill had been $114. I got rid of HBO and that brought it down to $107. I then cancelled the locals which brought it down to $97. I didn't figure 3 shows were worth $10 a month. I bought a small antenna ($6.99 at Amazon) for in case we need the local radar. For news, I can go to the websites. Then I went to the smallest flex package and added the action pack. The only channel I lost that we actually watched was the Science channel. (Haven't missed it.) Our total bill now is 64.77. That is a $50 savings a month.

Another suggestion is watch the sales at the grocery store. Just be careful of the buy this, get that free. At Thanksgiving or Christmas, our local grocery store has a buy a high priced ham, get a turkey free. It was actually cheaper to buy a lower priced ham (and slice it ourselves) and the turkey.
If you have a higher priced store in town, check their ads. Their brand is comparable to the brand names and usually cheaper than Walmart when on sale.

Oh on the smoking: We quit over 10 years ago. We made good down payments on both our car and our truck. Not to mention other stuff we have picked up.

Oh I forgot, if you have a landline, see if you can save any money there. I cut off the prepaid long distance (since we both have cell phones) and save $20 a month. The only person I ever called on it was my mother and if she doesn't want to talk to a cell phone she can call me back since she kept the prepaid long distance.

Sorry about the novel but when it comes to saving money, I could almost write a book.

[ApK]

Do zero-based budgeting of every dollar, every month. (try www.everydollar.com)
Be proactive and intentional with your money, and you may be surprised how much room in your budget you actually find.

This is a weird turn of topic for an editing thread. But I guess it counts under "I'll do anything."

Also, find a college student (English major) with editing skills and work out a trade or barter of some kind. Editors have to start somewhere, too.

ApK

[gmw]

Originally Posted by E.M.DuBois

[...]Urg, at this point, I’m wondering if I’m just wasting my life with this and just make it a hobby.

This I can really relate to. The result: I write for a hobby, I publish only those things that seem worth all the pain required for that next step. Even if you hire an editor there is still a lot of pain. And if you can barely afford a copy editor you won't be hiring a development editor, so there is a LOT you have to do anyway (and the more you can cut during development editing the less you have to copy edit ).

I'm hesitant to ask whether you've run into hyphenation issues (where the only solution to work out whether certain word pairs should be separate, hyphenated or joined is to look it up in the dictionary, because these are constantly evolving). And I ran into "in to" and "into" issues with mine ... and a whole lot more. I also used to get my "its" vs "it's" wrong a lot of the time, not because I didn't know better, but because my fingers were badly programmed from years of not caring that much.


On a more positive note: it does get better!

My first novel was a huge pain to get right. It's not like I'm going to claim it is perfect now, but I am proud of it and think it was - in retrospect, very definitely in retrospect - worth all that pain.

I was already writing my second novel while editing the first, and this immediate practise of what I was learning meant that I got better at not making (the same) mistakes again. Sure, I still made lots of mistakes, but these were new ones! - and variety is the spice of life.

It still hasn't become easy, but it does get better.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by ApK

Do zero-based budgeting of every dollar, every month. (try www.everydollar.com)
Be proactive and intentional with your money, and you may be surprised how much room in your budget you actually find.

This is a weird turn of topic for an editing thread. But I guess it counts under "I'll do anything."

Also, find a college student (English major) with editing skills and work out a trade or barter of some kind. Editors have to start somewhere, too.

ApK

Thanks for the link and I didn't find the turn weird since the OP has stated he would hire an editor if he had the money.

[E.M.DuBois]

Originally Posted by gmw

I'm hesitant to ask whether you've run into hyphenation issues (where the only solution to work out whether certain word pairs should be separate, hyphenated or joined is to look it up in the dictionary, because these are constantly evolving). And I ran into "in to" and "into" issues with mine ... and a whole lot more. I also used to get my "its" vs "it's" wrong a lot of the time, not because I didn't know better, but because my fingers were badly programmed from years of not caring that much.

I did, until I learned the difference between hyphens, en dashes, and em dashes. This came in handy, as I found out, since I’ve managed to need all three without realizing it. That’s one of the few ways Grammarly has been useful to me: it has a constantly-upgrading dictionary that shows me when words might need hyphens and when words that I’ve put hyphens into are actually one word. It’s vs. its was never a problem for me, because I text all the time and I text like I write. I’ve been told my texting is very proper. Same thing with their, there, and they’re, and to, too, and two. They were beaten into me in school, so I spot the mistake on the spot. Though I learned the difference between words like alter vs. altar as I wrote The Savior Libra.

But if all else fails, I have an expansive list of Homophone, homonyms, and Homographs and I’ll just turn on the search feature, look for each one, make sure I’ve used it correctly, and through that I’ll learn to recognize each one like muscle-memory. It’s going to be ass-painfully slow, but whatever it takes, right?

Originally Posted by gmw

This I can really relate to. The result: I write for a hobby, I publish only those things that seem worth all the pain required for that next step.

Despite how my over eagerness to publish The Savior Libra (leading to mistakes) may make me look, I actually write a lot. Been doing so for 13 years. I have a lot piled up on me. Most of it won’t be published. Some of it’s going to writerscafe.org. Only what I’ve set my heart, soul, blood, sweat, and tears into will be published for sale. Most of what I write is just for fun, and as a hobby. So, I can relate to your perspective as well.

@Cinisajoy: I can’t afford luxuries like being able to drink often or DISH. I’m living on bare essentials. It took me months to afford a cover. Which, I think, was WELL worth the investment. And I bought it because I can’t draw. At all. But I can learn to edit.

And I’m pretty sure there someone here who I could work out a deal with. I’m don’t rule out things like providing free promotion in my blogs and stuff for whoever edits my work, pointing other writers in that person’s direction. Service for a service, right?

Originally Posted by ApK

Do zero-based budgeting of every dollar, every month. (try www.everydollar.com)
Be proactive and intentional with your money, and you may be surprised how much room in your budget you actually find.

The Corps, in my separation into the Inactive Reserves, taught me techniques and gave me tools to budget myself. Far more in-depth, too. With the number of vets on the streets, they invest quite a bit in making sure I can at least keep myself in the black, and it’s up to me to soar. I appreciate the suggestions, and while I still bookmarked the link (because one think I learned in the Corps is you can never have too much knowledge,) I’m well-ahead of those. If there was a way for me to cut out more, then I would.

[Lemurion]

Also, get yourself some books on editing and keep working. The better you can make the manuscript before handing it off, the less an editor is going to need to charge you.

I couldn't find an AL BLANCA font, but I did find AR BLANCA. While I agree that slowing down is good, I don't think making it harder to read helps. Most editors want things in as easy to read a font as possible so they can focus on editing, not figuring out the words.

[E.M.DuBois]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

Also, get yourself some books on editing and keep working. The better you can make the manuscript before handing it off, the less an editor is going to need to charge you.

I couldn't find an AL BLANCA font, but I did find AR BLANCA. While I agree that slowing down is good, I don't think making it harder to read helps. Most editors want things in as easy to read a font as possible so they can focus on editing, not figuring out the words.

I actually check those out from my local library on a regular basis.

You're right, I meant AR BLANCA. But you've missed the point a little bit. That's not for the editor. It's for ME. It's to keep me from making a switch between self-editor and reader without realizing it by slowing ME down and making me focus on the words, not the imagery. I have a formatted manuscript for editors, double-spaced and all that. That's not the issue.

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by E.M.DuBois

I actually check those out from my local library on a regular basis.

You're right, I meant AR BLANCA. But you've missed the point a little bit. That's not for the editor. It's for ME. It's to keep me from making a switch between self-editor and reader without realizing it by slowing ME down and making me focus on the words, not the imagery. I have a formatted manuscript for editors, double-spaced and all that. That's not the issue.

I understand that it's for you. The problem is that I'm not sure that slowing yourself down by making it harder to read is necessarily the best way to focus on the work of editing.

If I can illustrate with an automotive analogy: if your car is going too fast at a given throttle setting, you can slow down by either riding the brake or shifting into a lower gear. When you ride the brake you're effectively robbing the engine of power; when you down shift you're increasing the available power at the lower speed. Both approaches slow you down, but shifting into a lower gear is far more efficient.

I'm concerned that using a more difficult font to read may have an effect more like riding the brake than shifting to a lower gear.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by E.M.DuBois

I did, until I learned the difference between hyphens, en dashes, and em dashes. This came in handy, as I found out, since I’ve managed to need all three without realizing it. That’s one of the few ways Grammarly has been useful to me: it has a constantly-upgrading dictionary that shows me when words might need hyphens and when words that I’ve put hyphens into are actually one word. It’s vs. its was never a problem for me, because I text all the time and I text like I write. I’ve been told my texting is very proper. Same thing with their, there, and they’re, and to, too, and two. They were beaten into me in school, so I spot the mistake on the spot. Though I learned the difference between words like alter vs. altar as I wrote The Savior Libra.

But if all else fails, I have an expansive list of Homophone, homonyms, and Homographs and I’ll just turn on the search feature, look for each one, make sure I’ve used it correctly, and through that I’ll learn to recognize each one like muscle-memory. It’s going to be ass-painfully slow, but whatever it takes, right?



Despite how my over eagerness to publish The Savior Libra (leading to mistakes) may make me look, I actually write a lot. Been doing so for 13 years. I have a lot piled up on me. Most of it won’t be published. Some of it’s going to writerscafe.org. Only what I’ve set my heart, soul, blood, sweat, and tears into will be published for sale. Most of what I write is just for fun, and as a hobby. So, I can relate to your perspective as well.

@Cinisajoy: I can’t afford luxuries like being able to drink often or DISH. I’m living on bare essentials. It took me months to afford a cover. Which, I think, was WELL worth the investment. And I bought it because I can’t draw. At all. But I can learn to edit.

And I’m pretty sure there someone here who I could work out a deal with. I’m don’t rule out things like providing free promotion in my blogs and stuff for whoever edits my work, pointing other writers in that person’s direction. Service for a service, right?



The Corps, in my separation into the Inactive Reserves, taught me techniques and gave me tools to budget myself. Far more in-depth, too. With the number of vets on the streets, they invest quite a bit in making sure I can at least keep myself in the black, and it’s up to me to soar. I appreciate the suggestions, and while I still bookmarked the link (because one think I learned in the Corps is you can never have too much knowledge,) I’m well-ahead of those. If there was a way for me to cut out more, then I would.

Hey no problem.
I am glad my suggestions were of no help to you.
You might or might not be amazed at the number of times I have heard I wish I could afford to buy whatever or I don't have the money for groceries when in one hand is a Marlboro and in the other a Budweiser. Or they have just bought themselves or their child a high end whatever because they wanted it (not needed) even with rent due and no groceries in the house.
Now the most idiotic one I ever heard was a woman who told me that she and her husband were both hungry. She told me that he had spent their last dime going to a WWE match (tickets were at least $150) and then he spent their last $50 on tshirts.
I did buy her lunch, but told her since her husband was giving money to millionaires, he could go hungry or eat those tshirts.
I did feel sorry for her because she was young and seemed trapped.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by E.M.DuBois

The Corps, in my separation into the Inactive Reserves, taught me techniques and gave me tools to budget myself. Far more in-depth, too. With the number of vets on the streets, they invest quite a bit in making sure I can at least keep myself in the black, and it’s up to me to soar.

Yup, the Navy made a similar effort when I was in SELRES, though I don't think it was when I separated, I think they actually sent us to a class during a drill weekend.

But judging by all the payday lenders, sign-n-drive car lots and rent-to-own appliance places right outside the bases, all apparently doing good business, I don't think every one learns well what they were taught (You know what "MARINE" stands for, after all...).
Plus, as you say, always good to learn more. And you may just need to be reminded of something you already know. For example: if you've tightened your budget as much as you can, what are you doing to increase your income....? Besides trying to sell a book before it's ready, that is....

[gmw]

Originally Posted by E.M.DuBois

Despite how my over eagerness to publish The Savior Libra (leading to mistakes) may make me look, I actually write a lot. Been doing so for 13 years. I have a lot piled up on me. Most of it won’t be published. Some of it’s going to writerscafe.org. Only what I’ve set my heart, soul, blood, sweat, and tears into will be published for sale. Most of what I write is just for fun, and as a hobby. So, I can relate to your perspective as well.

At the risk of seeming to contradict myself, there are a couple of problems with the "only publish the best" approach - especially when you're starting. The two problems are tightly related:

1) I've come to realise that preparing a book for publication really is part of finishing it. Having been through the process a few times now, I can't look at my non-published writing and think of it as finished.

2) I learned so much through the publication process that has (I think) made my writing better the first time around.

I think there's a lesson in there that other starters could take from what you're going through now, and what I went through some years ago: do NOT wait for your first big novel to truly finish (make publishable) a story.

Pick up some shorter stories and do them finish properly: editing, cover, blurb, the works. Learn what's involved, during which you collect the tools and skills that will make it slightly less painful when the novel comes. With a short story it may even be possible to afford a professional editor and see the real difference they can make, and learn from that. Treat this seriously with short stories and it won't come as such a shock with a novel.

Short stories also make it much better when trying to collect like-minded friends to help out. It's so much easier to ask someone to review a 10 page short, than to review a 400 or 600 page novel. It's also much easier for them to make a difference at the smaller scale.

There isn't anything new in the advice. Short stories are where so many traditionally published authors started. What's important is to realise the advantages it could offer to independent publishing as well.


This also comes under the heading of: Don't do what I did, do what I say. I didn't try to publish any shorts until after my first three novels. So I don't really expect anyone to pay that much attention. For some reason we writers seem to need that shock to the system to fully realise what is involved.

[E.M.DuBois]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Don't rush it. I figure you are looking at 2 months.

I guess I'm on the right track. It's taken me almost three, and that's just to comb through the physical manuscript! Then I've still got the read-aloud function, and all the editing pdf's I've downloaded to go through.

Oh, and as far as budgeting: It's looking like an editor may be in the works several years into the future... a lot of people have been coming after my money, and I've been talking to lawyers. May need to erect that magical shield of bankruptcy. On a good note: at least the credit-card agencies will finally get the hint and stop sending my "You pre-approved!" letters.