New Leaf Vote for April 2018 • It's All Relative: Time

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by GreyWolfsGhost

It all depends on the version of the book.

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/b...9781616955250/
Paperback | $16.00
Published by Soho Press
Dec 30, 2014 | 464 Pages | 5-1/2 x 8-1/4 | ISBN 9781616955250

https://www.penguin.com.au/books/mak...-9780099457060
Paperback
9780099457060
October 1, 2004
Arrow
592 pages

I gave a word count. How do you associate that page count with 592 pages? You can't because it does not match.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Dazrin

The point is that page counts by themselves don't necessarily mean much. They can (as pointed out above) vary by over a hundred pages even within the same "format" of book and without seeing the actual book we are only guessing as to what that means. As I mentioned to latepaul, I tend to look at the "All Editions" link at GR and use either specifically the MMPB format or use an "average" value for the paperback options rather than use just what is shown on Amazon or the first result that shows up at GR. Using the average seems to give me more consistent results.

For words, the word count estimate from BookShout is 120,773, so very close to Calibre's estimate, but even with that I have read books with 115k to 125k words that have lengths less than 300 pages to almost 550 pages and average about 420 pages. Formatting makes such a huge difference, over 120k words a 1 or 2 pt difference in print size can add a lot of pages.

This is why ADE page numbers work really well. They are the most consistent type of page number there are. They don't change based on formatting.

[Dazrin]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

This is why ADE page numbers work really well. They are the most consistent type of page number there are. They don't change based on formatting.

Unfortunately they mean nothing to anyone with a Kindle. I could say basically the same thing about Kindle locations but that would mean nothing to anyone that uses epubs. In the end, everyone needs to spend a little time to validate the available information so that they can get what they need out of it..

I find my method quick and easy to do and consistent enough for my purposes. If ADE pages work for you, then great.

[latepaul]

TBH I nearly asked for a word count but I thought that might be imposing having already asked for a page count.

Story is this: a long time ago (2007) I started a project to re-read all the Harry Potter books before the final one came out. In order to do so in time I had to set pretty ambitious targets as I'd left it late. So I wrote myself a spreadsheet to track my progress. I soon discovered I averaged 60 pages/hour.

Now I use what may be considered the great-grand-daughter of that spreadsheet to track my reading. And although I do track word count, most of the spreadsheet still refers to pages. Trouble is I rarely read on paper any more. So I tend to get the page count of the paperback edition from Amazon and use that. I have a section of the spreadsheet where I can enter all the different measures (Kindle pages, locations, epub page numbers, calibre locations etc) and convert between them. This also allows me to switch between different methods of reading the same book and still record in a common format - pages.

So 'pages' is a bit of a problematic measure for estimating time to read. OTOH word count, whilst better in terms of a measure of the size of the book, isn't necessarily better for time estimates because reading pace can vary with the content of the book, how I'm enjoying it, how easy the language is etc.

For example of the 16 books I've read this year so far, the words/page varies from 206-386 with an average of 281. So the size of a page varies a lot. But my words/min reading pace varies from 179-247, average 211 - which is almost as much variability.

I get a better estimate once I've started reading the book because then I can calculate a rate based on the current book only.

Sorry for rambling, some of you might be interested, some will probably be repulsed by the very idea

Oh and I just got the email to say Making History is now on loan to me!

[latepaul]

Originally Posted by Dazrin

latepaul: I look at the "All Editions" link on Goodreads to get an idea for page lengths that I am comfortable with. I normally base it on a mass market paperback version but that isn't always available. I am trying to shift my internal gauge to use word counts (which are often available at BookShout or AR BookFinder) since that seems more consistent than page counts.

Thanks for the BookShout mention. That site looks ideal for getting a word count for books I've not acquired yet.

[Dazrin]

Originally Posted by latepaul

Thanks for the BookShout mention. That site looks ideal for getting a word count for books I've not acquired yet.

You're welcome! I was very happy to find that site. The other one I mentioned is this one, which is used for the Accelerated Reader program my kids use in school, you may need to choose parent to get it to work. It doesn't have as much but does have a different selection. (Also, don't bother with reading length dot com, they used to use a simple 310 words/page calculation that is not very accurate.)

I don't suppose you would be willing to share your spreadsheet? You may have gone above and beyond mine which is impressive (in a very nerdy way)! I don't track how many minutes/hours it takes me to read things but I do track a lot of other information.

[orlok]

It is quite a long book. My Arrow Publications paperback is 574 pages, including the acknowledgements.

[GreyWolfsGhost]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I gave a word count. How do you associate that page count with 592 pages? You can't because it does not match.

It was not an attack it was just info with links to publishers. Was trying to say both are accurate in the context used.

But, you did mention pages and how they are wrong.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The hardcover is 380 pages.
The paperback is 464 pages.
The ePub is 342 ADE pages.

This is not a 600 page book. The Kindle version page number (594) that Amazon cites is wrong. Amazon quite frequently gets it wrong.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I got my page numbers from the hardcover and paperback versions alongside the Kindle version. https://www.amazon.com/Making-Histor.../dp/1616955252

Also, the ePub version is not that far off that at 342 ADE pages it would be close to 594 pBook pages. So really, that 597 page pBook version is not all that accurate. It could be large print, wide line spaces, bit margins, etc.

[Bookpossum]

I think it has been established that this is a longish book, but astrangerehere has said it is enjoyable to read.

That’s probably all the information we need for now.

[latepaul]

Originally Posted by Dazrin

I don't suppose you would be willing to share your spreadsheet? You may have gone above and beyond mine which is impressive (in a very nerdy way)! I don't track how many minutes/hours it takes me to read things but I do track a lot of other information.

I'm happy to share it but I feel I ought to write up some notes so it makes sense to someone other than me. Once I do that I'll provide a link.

[JSWolf]

delete post

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by latepaul

TBH I nearly asked for a word count but I thought that might be imposing having already asked for a page count.

Asking for the word count is no problem as long as I have the eBook. I just use the count pages plugin. It's no hassle at all.

Story is this: a long time ago (2007) I started a project to re-read all the Harry Potter books before the final one came out. In order to do so in time I had to set pretty ambitious targets as I'd left it late. So I wrote myself a spreadsheet to track my progress. I soon discovered I averaged 60 pages/hour.

Now I use what may be considered the great-grand-daughter of that spreadsheet to track my reading. And although I do track word count, most of the spreadsheet still refers to pages. Trouble is I rarely read on paper any more. So I tend to get the page count of the paperback edition from Amazon and use that. I have a section of the spreadsheet where I can enter all the different measures (Kindle pages, locations, epub page numbers, calibre locations etc) and convert between them. This also allows me to switch between different methods of reading the same book and still record in a common format - pages.

So 'pages' is a bit of a problematic measure for estimating time to read. OTOH word count, whilst better in terms of a measure of the size of the book, isn't necessarily better for time estimates because reading pace can vary with the content of the book, how I'm enjoying it, how easy the language is etc.

For example of the 16 books I've read this year so far, the words/page varies from 206-386 with an average of 281. So the size of a page varies a lot. But my words/min reading pace varies from 179-247, average 211 - which is almost as much variability.

I get a better estimate once I've started reading the book because then I can calculate a rate based on the current book only.

Sorry for rambling, some of you might be interested, some will probably be repulsed by the very idea

When I am trying to read an eBook in a given time, I go by minimum pages per day. That works given that I have page numbers I can use thanks to ADE.

Your method while a bit convoluted (IMHO) works for you and that's what matters.

Oh and I just got the email to say Making History is now on loan to me!

Congratulations on getting this so quickly.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Bookpossum

I think it has been established that this is a longish book, but astrangerehere has said it is enjoyable to read.

That’s probably all the information we need for now.

Indeed. I'm glad this came up because I didn't realize the book is so long and now I'll start it sooner than I planned.

Nothing wrong with a longer book; it'll be a change from the last two short ones and we've got over a month to read it.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by orlok

It is quite a long book. My Arrow Publications paperback is 574 pages, including the acknowledgements.

The Arrow page count is way way way off base.

Given a normally formatted pBook, it's roughly 380 pages.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by issybird

Indeed. I'm glad this came up because I didn't realize the book is so long and now I'll start it sooner than I planned.

Nothing wrong with a longer book; it'll be a change from the last two short ones and we've got over a month to read it.

If I thought that the 594 page count shown by the Arrow printed version was even close to correct, I would not have nominated this. But I went by the Hardcover, Paperback, and ADE page numbers as well as the word count and decided it's not too long for the time allotted.