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Old 06-18-2018, 06:18 AM   #16
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So guys, here are some news from CeBIT to the future of Boox.

During CeBIT, I had long conversations with the CEO of Onyx Ms. Kim.
She proved to be a very pleasant conversation partner, completely open and accommodating, concerning our wishes and reports. She also talked a lot about her plans for future developments, listened attentively to my comments, and made detailed notes.

Some plans were even changed in real time.
This, for example, concerns Onyx's plans for successors of 10.3" series with glass screens. As is known, with regard to screens, two out of three options have so far been implemented (capacitive touch screen for finger control, inductive digitizer for pen input, and built-in adjustable front light). It was initially planned to go the same way on the 10.3" projects with glass screens, but in my opinion we should definitely offer all three options in one device. Since this would increase the thickness of the device by about 0.5-0.7mm, Ms. Kim was of the opinion that it might not look so good after all. The trend in the devices seems to be to make them as thin as possible. After a long discussion I have managed to convince her, that functionality in professional equipment is primarily about beauty. Thus, we hope to be able to offer a new professional device with the unique equipment (three out of three) relatively soon.
If there are any interesting ideas, please share.

Great news is also that Onyx recently hired a very experienced product designer. New designs correspond to the most modern top level in appearance and functionality. One wonders how much technology fits in such a narrow case.

Also in the 8" range, there will soon be a successor to the very successful i86. Tools for housing are already completed and production will start soon. This looks very chic indeed (like a little brother of Note)! Lightweight and thin. Unfortunately, no pen input is currently planned for this series.

We also talked about the devices with 10.7 "EINK color screens and built-in front light. These have been used in primary schools in China for about a year as part of an educational test project. Over 100,000 of these devices have been built so far. Unfortunately, the price of these devices is currently too high (even higher than the price of Max2), so it is initially not available in the form for the Western market. The actual problem was, for the software development for this project had been assigned about100 Onyx software engineers for several months, so we've had shortages of resources for our own projects lately. Now this project is finally completed and all resources are available again. This also promises faster processing of slightly accumulated task lists from our customers.

Another aspect of our discussions was the openness of the Boox software and the more exact adaptation of apps and functionality to the needs and expectations of our customers.
Onyx would be very interested in working with experienced developers. The source codes, technical information and instruments are available upon request. They are now also recruiting among western developers. Therefore, if anyone is interested - please contact us.

There is not much to report on CeBIT 2018 itself. Visitor numbers were far below expectations. Apart from Onyx, I have not seen any other e-reader manufacturers. It was probably the last CeBIT participation of Onyx. In Germany, it now will be set at the Frankfurt Book Fair.


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Old 06-18-2018, 08:31 AM   #17
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Hello Booxtor,

Thanks for this informations and news about future devices.

From many of us, a big problem with Onyx it's when a device is sold and a new come out, the previous could be rapidly forgotten for the updates Do you think that some efforts will be done in this direction ?
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Old 06-18-2018, 08:41 AM   #18
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Thanks for sharing, Booxtor. Very exciting. Looking forward to the Note with the 3 screens and hopefully a colour eink ereader in the not too distant future.
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Old 06-18-2018, 10:46 AM   #19
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+1 on the need for ongoing updates/support for Onyx devices. The Note firmware, in theory, could be supported/updated for some time to come. There's no reason I know of why the Note couldn't run Nougat or Oreo, for example. It would be easier to recommend Onyx if they did offer long-term support/updates to ALL their devices!
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:22 AM   #20
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"10.7 "EINK color screens and built-in front light. These have been used in primary schools in China for about a year " what??? I have not idea. What technology? triton? aCeP? any photo?

10,7" eink color with front light woowww... I have prepared my money.
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:24 AM   #21
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On the order hand... 0,7 ml is nothing. I'd like a 10,3" front light...
SD?
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:49 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by downeaster59 View Post
+1 on the need for ongoing updates/support for Onyx devices. The Note firmware, in theory, could be supported/updated for some time to come. There's no reason I know of why the Note couldn't run Nougat or Oreo, for example. It would be easier to recommend Onyx if they did offer long-term support/updates to ALL their devices!
Agree with this 100%. The biggest hurdle in recommending Onyx devices to people for me is the thought that there appears to be very little interest in supporting/updating firmware over time. I hope this really will change in the future.
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Old 06-18-2018, 12:56 PM   #23
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Agree with this 100%. The biggest hurdle in recommending Onyx devices to people for me is the thought that there appears to be very little interest in supporting/updating firmware over time. I hope this really will change in the future.
Seconded (Thirded)!
Their devices always seem like a blueprint of devices to come. I know this has changed a bit with the Note/Max2, however, there's still a lot to be done and if any improvements over the next couple of years do not reach these two latest devices with their improved chips and RAM, then Onyx are effectively trimming down their target market to only those people who for reasons just need what is on offer at the exact moment in time of the device for sale.
The problem is then that single purpose devices should never be compared to multi-purpose devices, but once the former products’ pricing reaches multi-purpose open device levels, that's what people will expect from them. If the Note was 250-300 and worked well enough according to its core promises, it would be a much more attractive device right now.
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Old 06-18-2018, 12:59 PM   #24
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If there are any interesting ideas, please share.

Great news is also that Onyx recently hired a very experienced product designer. New designs correspond to the most modern top level in appearance and functionality.
I don't really care much about the look. Just functioning device is fine with me.

Where Onyx is struggling is the software, hardware is ok.

Not buying Max 2 unless there are security settings enabled.
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Old 06-18-2018, 01:11 PM   #25
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Seconded (Thirded)!
Their devices always seem like a blueprint of devices to come. I know this has changed a bit with the Note/Max2, however, there's still a lot to be done and if any improvements over the next couple of years do not reach these two latest devices with their improved chips and RAM, then Onyx are effectively trimming down their target market to only those people who for reasons just need what is on offer at the exact moment in time of the device for sale.
The problem is then that single purpose devices should never be compared to multi-purpose devices, but once the former products’ pricing reaches multi-purpose open device levels, that's what people will expect from them. If the Note was 250-300 and worked well enough according to its core promises, it would be a much more attractive device right now.
I really couldn't agree more - concentrate on selling devices that do what they've been bought to do. I didn't pay £700 to buy a device that's not finished in terms of the very basics of it's intended purpose/s...
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Old 06-18-2018, 05:25 PM   #26
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Chiming in on the firmware issues.

One way that Onyx could definitely overcome a lot of issues, and potentially open themselves up to a much larger market is by opening up the firmware - give us everything we need to compile from source and flash, and we'll make improvements to it.
Best of all? It's open source, Onyx can pull in the changes made.

Come on, Android uses the Apache license, which doesn't force this, but opening it all up would be an immense benefit to Onyx and purchasers.
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Old 06-18-2018, 06:44 PM   #27
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This is fantastic, Booxtor. A few thoughts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booxtor View Post
Great news is also that Onyx recently hired a very experienced product designer. New designs correspond to the most modern top level in appearance and functionality
The main concern here is functionality. Professional use was pointed out, was not it.
In fact,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booxtor View Post
Also in the 8" range, there will soon be a successor to the very successful i86.
Hardware buttons? SD Card? These are functionality issues that received a blow in the recent products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booxtor View Post
We also talked about the devices with 10.7 "EINK color screens and built-in front light.
I cannot find information about such a display... Is it not for public sale from E-Ink?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyb View Post
once the former products’ pricing reaches multi-purpose open device levels, that's what people will expect from them
Well, the expectation does not come from the price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyb View Post
if the Note was 250-300 [...] it would be a much more attractive device right now
The ES103TC1, "10.3˝ ePaper Display / Display Module Only", costs $349 on Eink's website. The screen alone costing 350$, the message underlying the conditional, involving impossibility ("If sold well below production cost"), seems unclear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charliebub View Post
that's not finished in terms of the very basics of it's intended purpose/s...
Running an OS? It runs it.
"Intended purpose/s" is not the same as "foremost fitting application".
And by the way, if I reason "Is bi-stable and has processor, hence good for elaborating and contemplating" I really immediately think "then good for text editing": cutting short of full modelling towards deterministic, not heuristic analysis, personal concern is met, which varies.
(And by the way, I have never met a "finished" product, and I have evaluated quite a few.)

Myself, I am in this phase in deep activity, which means that my foremost complaint can be with the shortcomings of Kingsoft Office or the sadly cramped Android software park, which has little to do with Onyx. But this is not fully so. For example, I would like to be able to use other Office Automation packages when beneficial - I am especially thinking of Andropen Office, but it does not work properly on the Max2 (it flashes). Or, WPS Office greys the text in some views (because designers by trend look instead of using), but Onyx could provide a global setting to "just double contrast everywhere", and that would even solve "silver on snow" websites (now half of them) and all similar problems elsewhere.

So, I think that the main progress that should be now wished from Onyx is to boost Quality Assurance. Which means ensuring that the hardware is solid, that the main default applications do their job, but also that the capabilities (the OS) are as full as possible - read, "USB networking", "lock/encryption" and all other normal OS functions that may have been disabled or broken -, and this also means trying to ensure that the largest possible software park works on the device - optimizing Theme/Styles to break the visual of as little apps as possible, assessing behaviours such as that mentioned of Andropen Office etc.

Last edited by mdp; 06-18-2018 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:18 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by mdp View Post
This is fantastic, Booxtor. A few thoughts:



The main concern here is functionality. Professional use was pointed out, was not it.
In fact,



Hardware buttons? SD Card? These are functionality issues that received a blow in the recent products.



I cannot find information about such a display... Is it not for public sale from E-Ink?



Well, the expectation does not come from the price.



The ES103TC1, "10.3˝ ePaper Display / Display Module Only", costs $349 on Eink's website. The screen alone costing 350$, the message underlying the conditional, involving impossibility ("If sold well below production cost"), seems unclear.



Running an OS? It runs it.
"Intended purpose/s" is not the same as "foremost fitting application".
And by the way, if I reason "Is bi-stable and has processor, hence good for elaborating and contemplating" I really immediately think "then good for text editing": cutting short of full modelling towards deterministic, not heuristic analysis, personal concern is met, which varies.
(And by the way, I have never met a "finished" product, and I have evaluated quite a few.)

Myself, I am in this phase in deep activity, which means that my foremost complaint can be with the shortcomings of Kingsoft Office or the sadly cramped Android software park, which has little to do with Onyx. But this is not fully so. For example, I would like to be able to use other Office Automation packages when beneficial - I am especially thinking of Andropen Office, but it does not work properly on the Max2 (it flashes). Or, WPS Office greys the text in some views (because designers by trend look instead of using), but Onyx could provide a global setting to "just double contrast everywhere", and that would even solve "silver on snow" websites (now half of them) and all similar problems elsewhere.

So, I think that the main progress that should be now wished from Onyx is to boost Quality Assurance. Which means ensuring that the hardware is solid, that the main default applications do their job, but also that the capabilities (the OS) are as full as possible - read, "USB networking", "lock/encryption" and all other normal OS functions that may have been disabled or broken -, and this also means trying to ensure that the largest possible software park works on the device - optimizing Theme/Styles to break the visual of as little apps as possible, assessing behaviours such as that mentioned of Andropen Office etc.
Hi, definitely agree with last paragraph, didn't really fully understand the rest I'm afraid. "main default applications" and of course hardware reliability (a function of the firmware too to an extent) - these are my main criteria also.

John B.
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Old 06-19-2018, 03:15 AM   #29
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Well, the expectation does not come from the price.

The ES103TC1, "10.3˝ ePaper Display / Display Module Only", costs $349 on Eink's website. The screen alone costing 350$, the message underlying the conditional, involving impossibility ("If sold well below production cost"), seems unclear.
I hear ya, however, if you can only produce a device that costs as much as a multi-purpose device, you either make it multi-purpose or at least make its feature set so tight and stable and functional that it seems like a good value proposition. One way to go about it: If you cannot make “the system” (apps, expandability, etc.) work on the device, make the device work within “the system”, for example, by offering PC/Mac/Linux/Android/iOS apps that mirror your work on the Boox so you can distribute and organize your information from there (e.g. paste notes into Onenote, get highlights and annotations from PDFs and epubs, export your writing to your word processor etc.)
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Old 06-19-2018, 03:25 PM   #30
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Thanks Booxtor, great report (and a photo too!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booxtor View Post
We also talked about the devices with 10.7 "EINK color screens and built-in front light. These have been used in primary schools in China for about a year as part of an educational test project. Over 100,000 of these devices have been built so far.
I'd love to see some pics or video of that device.

While I'm happy that the Onyx engineers are back I agree with everyone else around here about the need for more QA and work on software/firmware side of things. The world doesn't need a hundred more half-baked ereaders in all shapes and sizes. It would be nice to have a couple of well made products instead.

Just have look at Remarkable, a start-up without any prior experience in the field, but they seem to be understanding it. (Whether the efforts by their marketing team translate into an actual product improvement only time will tell but at least they are sending the right signals and have my attention.)

So I'm hoping that those 100 Onyx software engineers with a lot of spare time now will result in my device receiving a long overdue update soon. All the best to Ms. Kim and her team
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