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Old 01-04-2016, 05:22 AM   #16
eschwartz
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I would really like to know why this thread has somehow become about typography and the purported benefits of niche, alternative reader software, when the OP has given no indication of interest in either one, and this really isn't helping the OP form a decision.
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Old 01-04-2016, 06:32 AM   #17
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The OP asked some questions before buying a Kindle. I gave him my best advice, straight to the point in a very short message.

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Originally Posted by roger64 View Post
The answer you get will vary according to the thread you are reading. This is a Kindle thread (think of the Stockholm syndrome).

.../...

My advice is to stay away from Kindle. They want to keep you in jail. They really mean it. Beware.
You did not appreciate it, though later you told me yourself that it would have been wiser for me to stay away from buying a Kindle...

But, tell me: is it false to inform would-be buyers that Amazon wants to keep them in jail? That they really mean it? We cannot say them the truth?

I had received from you already two weeks ago some disparaging comments ("on the point of foolishness") to which I did not reply a single word, but when I read the same kind of comment a second time for a totally different subject, I could clearly see a bullying pattern that I will not stand.

You also gave technical arguments: you were the first to speak about how Kindle and Kobo are more featureful than Koreader.

Well, on both points, you got replies. Koreader and hyphenation may not be the majority choice in NY, but you can't deny that they can be a sound (i.e. non-foolish) choice. How surprising indeed...

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Old 01-04-2016, 06:48 AM   #18
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But, tell me: is it false to inform would-be buyers that Amazon wants to keep them in jail? That they really mean it? We cannot say them the truth?(
But it is misleading to signal out Amazon in this respect. All of the major players want to keep you in jail, as you put it. Amazon is not even the worst of them. That distinction must unfortunately be reserved for Apple. B&N's actions over the past year or so do not bear mentioning. And Kobo uses both Adobe ADE DRM and its own proprietary format. In fact, it has recently been playing with releases of its Kobo Desktop software to try to prevent Obok removing DRM. The fact is that we are offered a choice of Jails, and it is ludicrous to say don't buy a Kindle on this basis. In fact, if you must choose a Jail, to use an Americanism straight out of John Grisham, why not choose the Federal Country Club of Amazon?
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Old 01-04-2016, 06:49 AM   #19
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What defect? Just because a device won't do something does not make it a defect.
And who has wrongly criticized you?
My eyes do have some defects which is why I wear glasses.
Here is the thing, if you want a device to do something then it is best to buy a device that will do it without someone having to rework it. Oh and I had never noticed the lack of hyphenation on a kindle. I did notice some weird hyphenation on the kobo.

I mean I wouldn't buy a toaster to make coffee or a coffee maker for eggs.
Note: I do think there is a small appliance that will do all three.
With a Kindle, you do need to have the eBook you get from Amazon to be converted to KFX to enable hyphenation, kerning, & ligatures. Not all eBooks have been converted. But, with a Kobo, you get hyphenation, kerning, & ligatures (if the font used supports kerning & ligatures) right out of the box using plain ePub. No need to do anything special with the ePub.

As for hyphenation weirdness, I've never see anything odd. I use ePub and not kepub. The only oddness I've read about has been with Dutch, but that might be due to problems with the hyphenation dictionary.
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Old 01-04-2016, 06:54 AM   #20
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No really???

That doesn't mean everyone cares about it or is bothered by its lack. About the only place you see complaints about it one way or another are on forums like this.
The only time people are bothered by lack of hyphenation is when there are large gaps between words or the Kindle does it's left justify the line to prevent large gaps.

As for kerning and ligatures, I don't think most people are bothered not having these.
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Old 01-04-2016, 07:03 AM   #21
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What I've noticed is some are buying a Kindle for whet they think they can do with one and not for what it does. Then they are stuck with a device that doesn't allow them to do what they want.

If you buy a device that needs to be jalbroken to do what you want, be prepared to have to live with it as it is because that's always a possibility.

Kindles & iPhones need to be jailbroken to add more functionality. Kobos just need to be patched.
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Old 01-04-2016, 11:24 AM   #22
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I spend 45 years as a electronics tech/engineer/software engineer and over that time I learned that the best way to screw up a device, computer, radio, transmitter, or the superconducting magnets were to start screwing with them to make them do something they were not originally designed for. So I make sure I buy the device for what I want it to do, and it always works better that way.
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Old 01-04-2016, 11:51 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger64 View Post
The OP asked some questions before buying a Kindle. I gave him my best advice, straight to the point in a very short message.



You did not appreciate it, though later you told me yourself that it would have been wiser for me to stay away from buying a Kindle...

But, tell me: is it false to inform would-be buyers that Amazon wants to keep them in jail? That they really mean it? We cannot say them the truth?
Well, it is very simple. Extraordinarily simple.

The Kindle does exactly what it is advertised to do. It reads books in the AZW3 format.
There are jails and jails... Naturally I am rooting for anyone who wants to unlock the jail and gain full control over their device.
But I have little sympathy for anyone who complains that it is necessary, yet isn't willing to do what it takes (currently: serial port jailbreak). Specifically, when they bought the device anyway, get burned when they should've known better (practicality always beats idealism), and then proceeds to complain about it in unrelated discussions.

Quote:
I had received from you already two weeks ago some disparaging comments ("on the point of foolishness") to which I did not reply a single word, but when I read the same kind of comment a second time for a totally different subject, I could clearly see a bullying pattern that I will not stand.
I have already told you -- if you feel my posts were a violation of the posting guidelines, report me to the Moderation Team.

Posting Guideiines #12: When Things go Wrong
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Do not comment about other member's possible guideline violations on open forum. Instead, please use the "report post" button to report any post that appears to contravene these guidelines. It is the button at the lower-left of posts and the upper right of private messages.
Quote:
You also gave technical arguments: you were the first to speak about how Kindle and Kobo are more featureful than Koreader.

Well, on both points, you got replies. Koreader and hyphenation may not be the majority choice in NY, but you can't deny that they can be a sound (i.e. non-foolish) choice. How surprising indeed...
And I already told you, that was a side point, a matter of personal opinion. For the record, people shouldn't go around recommending someone change their mind and buy a Kobo instead of a Kindle, based solely on their personal belief that Kindles have lousy typography and you can't use KOReader.
Unless, of course, the OP specifically indicates he cares about typography, which he hasn't.

And my only barometer for "foolish choices" was "can this device, right now, be made into something you can tolerate using".
And if the answer is "no", as it was for you, then it is 100% a foolish choice. And it would be a foolish choice even if 99.999999999999999% of people cared about typography and used it as their top priority for selecting a device.



Fortunately, the OP has not indicated that typography is important to him, therefore the Kindle is still a viable option.

Last edited by eschwartz; 01-04-2016 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 01-04-2016, 01:05 PM   #24
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I think I know how to settle this. Get a large screen phone and use Moon+ reader and you can then use epub or mobi easily.

Another possible way to settle this is to meet on the field of battle.

Of course a third alternative is just to keep this silly argument going. Somebody must be enjoying it.

Barry
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Old 01-04-2016, 01:18 PM   #25
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Of course a third alternative is just to keep this silly argument going. Somebody must be enjoying it.

Barry
Probably not the OP -- I think we've scared him off.
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Old 01-04-2016, 06:35 PM   #26
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I think I know how to settle this. Get a large screen phone and use Moon+ reader and you can then use epub or mobi easily.

Another possible way to settle this is to meet on the field of battle.

Of course a third alternative is just to keep this silly argument going. Somebody must be enjoying it.

Barry


Yep I agree... Reminds me of the Chevy vs Ford Battles!
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Old 01-04-2016, 09:21 PM   #27
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The OP is currently out of jail and running

1. - Since I currently have the choice of both, I keep reading on my patched Kobo Glo with "niche" Koreader and absolutely do not use the Kindle PW3 with its standard software. It's my informed choice. Its true that to fully appreciate Koreader, like Linux, you need to spend a little time to tune it to your taste. but after that it fits like a glove...

2. - To come back on the jail (Kindle). the following statement cannot be true (mind, of course I do not say that his author is dishonest or lying).

Quote:
Originally Posted by eschwartz
It could be hyphenated or not hyphenated, for all I care, and to be perfectly honest if you hadn't specifically told me it was hyphenated I wouldn't notice the difference.

I have read a couple thousand books on my non-hyphenated Kindle Touch, and enjoyed it immensely.
To be honest, it was the "reading" part that really did it for me.
It cannot be true that you did not notice the difference simply because it is impossible to read 2000 unhyphenated books without noticing countless times these kind of defects which appear for all justified texts. (see the middle text in the screenshot). (French typographers have a name for them: "lézardes" and there is most probably an English name for them.)

So, if it was true, then it should have been only 2000 books of ragged text or stanzas, or written in Klingon language (or another where alphabetic rules do not apply) which is most unprobable.

Note please, that I do not cast any doubt about your masochistic pleasure when reading these unhyphenated texts... Every taste is in the nature, even weird ones. But you did notice it.
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Last edited by roger64; 01-04-2016 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 01-04-2016, 09:41 PM   #28
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It doesn't fit your worldview, sure. But it's true.

Unhyphenated, justified text.

Of course, I wasn't reading on a two-inch screen. There are more than three words per line, and very few 162-letter words, so the "gaping holes" that I believe you are alluding to (in French, which I will cheerfully ignore under any and all circumstances)...

... aren't very gaping.


I could say more, but I know when my words are being ignored, so I'll leave it at "I still claim to have not noticed anything you believe I should've noticed".
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Old 01-04-2016, 10:14 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvkemp View Post
I spend 45 years as a electronics tech/engineer/software engineer and over that time I learned that the best way to screw up a device, computer, radio, transmitter, or the superconducting magnets were to start screwing with them to make them do something they were not originally designed for. So I make sure I buy the device for what I want it to do, and it always works better that way.
Thank you for your advice. You may not have heard about Linux though...
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Old 01-04-2016, 10:17 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschwartz View Post
It doesn't fit your worldview, sure. But it's true.

Unhyphenated, justified text.

Of course, I wasn't reading on a two-inch screen. There are more than three words per line, and very few 162-letter words, so the "gaping holes" that I believe you are alluding to (in French, which I will cheerfully ignore under any and all circumstances)...

... aren't very gaping.


I could say more, but I know when my words are being ignored, so I'll leave it at "I still claim to have not noticed anything you believe I should've noticed".
I have found the only time I notice the spacing is if I have the font on large extra jumbo super size. Or if the text has been badly formatted.
Some authors especially in the self help genre do
SCREAM AT THE TOP OF THE LUNGS.
then whisper so even a mouse couldn't hear.
Now let's scream into a megaphone.
I don't know what they do after that because I have hit the remove from device thingy.

As far as regular text, I couldn't tell you if there are one two or three spaces.

Edited to add this forum fixed the spaces between some of the words in the previous sentence.
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