Possible new Sony ereader with Glo

[Ripplinger]

Originally Posted by AnotherCat

I really don't want to preserver with this as I can see it is a road to nowhere, but there is no way that a basic tab (e.g. without cameras, phone) with a good screen will cost anymore than a lit E Ink device.

And in the end, your not needing a colour display will not stand in the way of the advance of technology .

Leave you to it.

I'm not arguing with your statements at all or even trying to sway you to my way of thinking. Honestly I'd KILL for a phone that I could actually see in sunlight, so it's a very serious question for me which brand/model phone you have. Even if I have to save pennies for a year, it would be worth the upgrade to me if it's all possible to obtain in the US.

[thomasn75]

Originally Posted by Ripplinger

As alvina said, until Sony makes the official announcement, I'm taking everything I read about the reader with a grain of salt.

But this Digital Reader review mentions the included cover with a built-in light a few times. I tend to think this is correct since there would no other explanation for a heavier reader over last year's model.

Just a thought. Why would sony sell a lighted cover if it was included. I think Sony may include a unlighted cover and then expect you to pay £40 plus for the privilege of light. This would be consistent with their business strategy of trying to minimise their market share

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by thomasn75

Just a thought. Why would sony sell a lighted cover if it was included. I think Sony may include a unlighted cover and then expect you to pay £40 plus for the privilege of light. This would be consistent with their business strategy of trying to minimise their market share

Yep. The front-story on mobileread states the T3 will come with a cover included, but the lighted cover is optional.

[Man Eating Duck]

Originally Posted by AnotherCat

Of course if one just reads popular skim through and throw away mass-market paperback novels then ones tastes are probably of a limited nature anyway, so greyscale E Ink is satisfactory;

Wow. Is an appropriate come-back that the grown-up books I read are of the variety that wouldn't benefit from high-res colour photos?

Jokes aside, I think I can summarise your post this way: right tool for the job. Lots of scientific literature contain graphs and diagrams that are easier to present and read in colour, along with page layouts that benefit from larger screens. In most of the illustrated non-fiction I've read, though, colour or large displays doesn't really bring any advantages to the table, and I surely hope E-Ink isn't going anywhere any time soon. Although I've only tried a lighted reader for a short time, I know a frontlight will be a benefit to my usage pattern.

Most importantly, though, you need to accept that other people might have different preferences from yours. Even if you seem to feel strongly about your preferences, that doesn't invalidate those of others. Feel free to choose the latest point'n'drool iDevice as a matter of preference, I'll stick to my E-Ink device for reading.

And now, back to our scheduled laments about the lack of frontlight on the new readers

[hwlester]

Originally Posted by Man Eating Duck

Wow. Is an appropriate come-back that the grown-up books I read are of the variety that wouldn't benefit from high-res colour photos?

Sounds like you're reading the wrong "grown-up" books...

Seriously, I recently picked up a Nook HD+ for comics and magazines and I'm loving it, but if a color eink screen could replicate the look of a printed magazine, I'd be all over it.

I'm in information technology, so technical books are indeed a concern. The typical smaller size of eink screens and lack of color can be challenging for charts, diagrams, and tables, but tablets aren't as good for long term reading.

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by Man Eating Duck

..Most importantly, though, you need to accept that other people might have different preferences from yours. Even if you seem to feel strongly about your preferences, that doesn't invalidate those of others...

A very strange comment because actually, I have made no comment at all as to what my preferences are, either with respect to readers or reading matter. I invite you to point out any statement in this thread where I do so.

If you read my posts with an open mind you will see that all I have been saying is what I think will happen to the market and why. For all you know, from what I have said in this thread, I may spend all day reading Mills & Boone, and that a PC connected to a 55inch TV as a monitor is my preferred reading device .

As I have said, and you have now taken part in confirming to me by your claiming things of me that I have not in fact said, that trying to contribute is a road to nowhere unless one just regurgitates the received wisdom that lit E Ink is the only way forward and any manufacturer who doesn't listen to that is doomed.

[Man Eating Duck]

Originally Posted by AnotherCat

[...]I have made no comment at all as to what my preferences are, either with respect to readers or reading matter. I invite you to point out any statement in this thread where I do so.

"certainly my next reader will be a tab"

Originally Posted by AnotherCat

As I have said, and you have now taken part in confirming to me by your claiming things of me that I have not in fact said, that trying to contribute is a road to nowhere unless one just regurgitates the received wisdom that lit E Ink is the only way forward and any manufacturer who doesn't listen to that is doomed.

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought your diatribe against E-Ink (including jab against the supposed literary tastes of people that prefer E-Ink), and especially frontlit E-Ink as compared to backlit displays, somehow reflected your personal opinion. My mistake, I'm sure.

I refuse to get involved in an argument with a troll (you are, after all, posting in a thread about new E-Ink readers) about the contextual semantics of the statements in your posts, let's just agree to disagree about whatever you didn't say.

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by Ripplinger

I'm not arguing with your statements at all or even trying to sway you to my way of thinking. Honestly I'd KILL for a phone that I could actually see in sunlight, so it's a very serious question for me which brand/model phone you have. Even if I have to save pennies for a year, it would be worth the upgrade to me if it's all possible to obtain in the US.

It is an "old" Nokia N8 phone that first came on the market 3 years ago, and has been a discontinued model for about a year so no possibility of getting a new one, besides in other respects such as software it does not compare favourably with top end phones now on the market; I am holding onto mine because it is superior to all but the Nokia 808 with respect to its camera, and has very good audio and navigation, those being things of importance to my own use.

Just so it is just not me who is making a claim as to its readability in sunlight, if one was to look out the gsmarena.com detailed review it would be seen that they say; "Another first is a Nokia AMOLED display to remain perfectly legible under direct sunlight. Previous attempts were pretty poor on a bright sunny day, but this time they got it right." I cannot comment on other manufacturer's phones but I know the likes of the Nokia E7, etc. are reputed to be the same.

That is a phone with 3 year old (at time to market) technology so daylight readable screens have been around for quite some time (they, of course, also exist on other electronic equipment).

[Tony1988]

Originally Posted by AnotherCat

Those are sweeping and incorrect statements and totally ignoring of the fact that technologies, including screen ones, are advancing very fast.

Despite your claim, bright sunlight readable non E Ink screens have been around for quite some while. As one example, my phone works perfectly in bright sunlight and indeed automatically adapts itself to the ambient light level from bright sunlight to pitch dark; in fact I have read books on it in bright sunlight. Admittedly it was an expensive and technologically advanced phone (not an Android phone aimed at the masses) when it was first released, but that was 3 years ago, so old.

There is also the likelihood that E Ink becomes colour capable, but the moment it does so, and should that technology be superior to alternative screen technologies at that time, they will be quickly presented as small tabs with the added functionality that those devices have over a dedicated reader and which functionality is dependant on colour (applications, images/video). It is small colour, tablets I presented as being the near future (in fact arriving now) and killing the lit greyscale E Ink market.

Of course, if colour E Ink turns out to be inferior to other screen technologies, then it will not suceed. So the future for lit devices is almost certainly in small tabs, whichever way one looks at it, old greyscale lit readers are just a short-lived passing phase; certainly my next reader will be a tab (and as I have said, I have over a decade of reading on small colour devices).

You mention colour as only being necessary if one reads magazines (in fact, as magazines are mostly pdfs and are of complex page layout they are not an easy reading experience on ANY small device). I can assure you that most who read illustrated non-fiction (whether popular or technical/scientific), and even many trade paperbacks on a colour capable device will disagree with you. There are also comics, which have a very large following. Much fiction (especially literature and children's/young person's) includes colour illustrations; in fact there are many examples of such in the Patricia Clark Library on this web site. Colour is also far superior in low light conditions than lit greyscale E Ink due to the near infinite control of the display (including use of colour: for myself, and I know for many others, a light sand or similar background tint when reading lit under low ambient light conditions makes for more pleasant reading than greyscale does).

Of course if one just reads popular skim through and throw away mass-market paperback novels then ones tastes are probably of a limited nature anyway, so greyscale E Ink is satisfactory; but such would give a more realistic reading experience if it could mimic the trashy paper that mass-market paperback is printed on . Though it would seem to me that the likes of Mills & Boone would, for the sake of their interesting colour covers, be better on a colour capable device.

Anyway, it seems that it is sacrilege to suggest that there are technology paths superior to lit grey scale E Ink (or even to suggest that unlit E Ink presents an equal or better reading experience), or that any reader manufacturer who doesn't go down the lit greyscale road is not doomed to oblivion, so I will leave it all at that.

Color eink ereaders have been available for at least a year now.

[Ripplinger]

Originally Posted by AnotherCat

It is an "old" Nokia N8 phone that first came on the market 3 years ago, ...

Thanks for the info. My next phone I'm seriously going to look into a Nokia and check them out.

I still think there's room for both tablets and e-ink readers in the future market though, they each have their advantages.

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by Man Eating Duck

"certainly my next reader will be a tab"

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought your diatribe against E-Ink (including jab against the supposed literary tastes of people that prefer E-Ink), and especially frontlit E-Ink as compared to backlit displays, somehow reflected your personal opinion. My mistake, I'm sure.

I refuse to get involved in an argument with a troll (you are, after all, posting in a thread about new E-Ink readers) about the contextual semantics of the statements in your posts, let's just agree to disagree about whatever you didn't say.

I am sorry that you take that view but you seem to be wrongly interpreting that if someone claims that alternative technology reading devices are likely to take over then that is an attack on the existing ones. I am also not trolling.

First, you accuse me of being off topic, however the first post in this thread stated:

"I am only guessing.
Sony might release a Glo ereader version soon.
Because all the local retailers are cutting down the price of the Sony case with "light".

I really wish that they would come up a version with choices of Glo color.
For example: The Glo lite can be changed to green, blue and white etc.
It will allow the users to adjust the device according to their need."

That does not introduce a thread that aligns with your accusation of my being off topic "you are, after all, posting in a thread about new E-Ink readers"

My posts address, especially knowing that Sony's unlikely to come up with a lit E Ink reader this time around, why that may be i.e. the device market may be about to change. It also addresses the original poster's stated desire for a colour capable device.

You claim my post was a "diatribe against E-Ink (including jab against the supposed literary tastes of people that prefer E-Ink), and especially frontlit E-Ink as compared to backlit displays"

You will find that I make no derogatory comparison between "backlit" and "front lit" at all. In fact I tried to avoid the use of the term "back lit" (I think I succeeded) because there are competent colour display technologies, either here or soon to be here and which I had in mind, that are one or the other, or in fact neither of those. I actually mention the possibility of coloured E Ink displays but do state, sensibly I would have thought, that it has the competition of other technologies to compete with. But I take no firm stance as to which will be best and if coloured E ink wins then that is just fine by me. (Tony1988 has pointed out that colour E Ink readers exist already (I am aware of only the Pocketbook one, claimed to be the first earlier this year, but would be interested knowing the others) but my understanding is that they are really still in the development stage and are poor at producing some colours, most importantly white.)

I think that perhaps you have made the mistake of thinking that all alternative displays to front lit E Ink have to be ones that are back lit and that by extension of that you have made the mistake that any reference to a small tablet device has to mean back lit.

In fact, there are transmissive displays (back lit), reflective displays (front lit) and emissive displays (the pixels self illuminate) and all of these are in current use and continuing development.

For example, if you look at my response to Ripplinger you will see that the old phone I use and whose display I am quite happy with, has an AMOLED display. AMOLED displays are organic LED (OLED) displays that are neither front lit nor back lit, the pixels generate their own light through electroluminescence, they are of course colour capable and been in wide use for some years now. It is one that I use as a matter of choice in one device, so any accusation that I have a bias to back lit is entirely misplaced.

Among the reflective (i.e. front lit) displays now appearing are IMOD ones such as Mirasol (IMOD already in devices is mostly 2 colour only, black and one other, but Qualcomm, for example, have stated they will be producing full colour) and, among others, the possibility of colour EPD displays (Electrophoretic e.g. E Ink is an implementation of black and white EPD).

The obvious advantage of reflective is that it is usable without any power to illuminate it (as long as there is sufficient ambient light), whereas transmissive and emissive displays are totally dependant on consuming power and so less efficient from a battery use point of view. But this difference is rapidly decreasing, with the likes of OLED much more efficient than LED, for example, and improving battery technologies. So for uses where long time between charges is attractive, such as for reading, the difference between reflective and non reflective displays is diminishing. For example, some small device manufacturers are now claiming 70 hours of continuous video (which is much more power hungry than ebook reading); that means at least a couple of weeks reading if one read 8 hours a day.

So what I have been saying is that there are display technologies here, or about to appear, which seem capable of displacing current greyscale E Ink and that small tablets are also now also appearing (i.e. 6 - 8 inch, but often expensive compared to readers as they include the likes of phone and other cellular connectivity, cameras, GPS, etc.). A convergence of those things seems to me to be likely very soon into low priced simple colour tabs which are competent at reading, have wireless connectivity, audio and sufficient power and competent O/S for web browsing, email, imagery display and other applications, and so meet the needs of a wide market.

Grey scale E Ink, nor any other grey scale either back or front lit, will not appear competitively in in such tablets for obvious utility reasons; colour is what the major small tab market will want, and with colour displays the readers of ebook have the choice of either doing so in grey scale or colour. It would seem to me that readers as we now know them do not have a long future, and what I have been saying is perhaps an answer to the original poster's post.

If you have got this far I hope you see that your accusations are entirely incorrect, I am just setting out what I see to be a very strong case as to the direction ereaders may likely head very soon. Of course, I may be wrong and in the year 2020 people will only be buying the current generation lit E Ink ones; somehow I think that will not be the case.

[Canuck_in_Japan]

Originally Posted by thomasn75

Just a thought. Why would sony sell a lighted cover if it was included. I think Sony may include a unlighted cover and then expect you to pay £40 plus for the privilege of light. This would be consistent with their business strategy of trying to minimise their market share

LOL! Sony does seem to do that. By the way, we all keep referring to Sony this and Sony that as if it were one large borg but I think it's typical of Japanese companies to have different departments working on separate things and for there to be absolutely no interaction whatsoever between the different departments. So when we laugh in disgust at Sony for trying to sell us an overpriced, out of date ereader that no one wants we really ought to be laughing at the Sony ereader section. The people at Sony responsible for the PS4 are releasing a bleeding edge console for $100 less than their competition and $200 less than what they charged for their previous console. Unfortunately the people in charge of the ereader division are not so forward thinking.

[AnotherCat]

The following referring to me

Originally Posted by Man Eating Duck

"certainly my next reader will be a tab"...

.

Indeed it will be the way things are going.

But is because I find colour useful to me, not because I am against or have a strong preference for any particular display technology whether front, back or emissive lit. I will get, whenever that is in the future, that which appears to the best display technology fitted tab at the time and will, of course, then have the choice, as other will, of reading in either of grey scale or colour, or indeed a mixture of both .

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by Canuck_in_Japan

LOL! Sony does seem to do that. By the way, we all keep referring to Sony this and Sony that as if it were one large borg but I think it's typical of Japanese companies to have different departments working on separate things and for there to be absolutely no interaction whatsoever between the different departments. So when we laugh in disgust at Sony for trying to sell us an overpriced, out of date ereader that no one wants we really ought to be laughing at the Sony ereader section. The people at Sony responsible for the PS4 are releasing a bleeding edge console for $100 less than their competition and $200 less than what they charged for their previous console. Unfortunately the people in charge of the ereader division are not so forward thinking.

I'm inclined to agree. I love Sony ereaders and was prepared to buy another one frontlit or not. I kind of liked the look of the light on the pictured case. But I am afraid it will have to be a lot sweller than it appears to have me buying it and paying extra for a cover that I would not have bought included.

Still the first Sony I bought had a cover, a carrying case and an ugly zipped thing IIRC. Maybe they will sell a coverless one this time too.

Helen

[Rizla]

No, according to the mobileread front-page story, it will include a cover, but the lighted cover will be optional and extra. Bad move.