Benefits of being locked in to a provider

[barryem]

First let me say I wish ereaders were made by companies who didn't sell ebooks. That, to me, is the single biggest problem with this industry.

But they are and there are some benefits and I thought they were worth mentioning. I can only speak about Amazon as a provider. I have Nooks and Kobos but I don't buy their books. They're for sideloaded books.

The first and most obvious benefit is ease of use. I get 3G Kindles for the most part and I can download books from my library anywhere I happen to be. I can also buy books easily. The Kindles are very well coordinated in terms of features with their books. It all works well.

Also there's the ability to read on my Kindle and later on my phone and then again on my Kindle and never have to find my place. Each device knows where I am on the other device. That also lets me keep a Kindle by my bed so when I go to bed I don't have to carry it with me. I just go to bed, pick up the one on my night stand and read where I left off on my living room Kindle. Maybe I should also get a bathroom Kindle. Actually a front porch Kindle would make sense but it might walk off.

Now I can also buy audiobooks on my Kindle and synch those as well. I haven't done that and I'm not really expecting to but a lot of people probably will so this has to be considered a benefit.

Then there's X-Ray. I used to use that a lot till they "improved" it. Now I just use search to locate characters I've forgotten. It's simpler. But the idea of X-Ray is a very good one.

I can't say for sure none of these benefits would exist if Amazon only sold the books and the readers were made by Asus or Lenovo or Dell. But my guess is they never would have happened. It requires a lot of coordination between reader maker and book seller and there probably wouldn't have been a lot of motivation for that.

I don't really feel locked in. If I bought books from Nook or Kobo I'm sure I could read them on my Kindle just like I read the ones I buy on my Kindle on my Nook and Kobo. It's trivial to do that. But the sellers do make some feeble attempts to lock us in and it seems to be popular to describe this as being locked in.

Barry

[bgalbrecht]

I don't know whether Adobe charges more for an ereader that can read both the standard Adobe encryption and the B&N encryption, but I think it's too bad that most of the ePub ereaders don't support the B&N encryption. Personally, I try to buy from Kobo because they also support syncing across devices within their walled garden (sadly, not with sideloaded books). They also have their VIP program that gives 10% off some ebooks, and a price matching program that gives 10% off the other retailer's price if it's cheaper elsewhere. Kobo doesn't support audio books on their eInk readers, but I don't listen to them, so I'm not missing anything. While I do wish that I could somehow register my ereader at every retailer, and then download wirelessly from all of them, I have bought enough books at retailers that have gone out of business and not sold their customers to another retailer, that I still would worry about my books going poof if I didn't download them and back them up myself.

One thing I don't like is that all of the retailers selling their own ereaders have dropped the external SD card readers. I have bought a lot of books from all the major retailers (or gotten free ones), and also downloaded from here and Project Gutenberg. None of the currently sold ereaders from Amazon, B&N and Kobo will hold my collection out of the box, but at least Kobo's ereaders can still be upgraded with a larger SD card if I'm willing to void the warranty.

[patrickt]

I spent years reading what I could find rather than what I wanted to read because I was waiting for a standard protocol. I gave up and went with the company that had the largest selection of books I might want to read. I have no regrets but I do wish there was more concern for readers than there is with booksellers and publishers.

I should be able to buy books from Barnes and Noble and read them on a Kindle or buy books from Amazon and read them on a Kobo. I should also be able to buy books from Amazon.com from anywhere in the world.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I should be able to buy books from Barnes and Noble and read them on a Kindle or buy books from Amazon and read them on a Kobo. I should also be able to buy books from Amazon.com from anywhere in the world.

I should be able to buy a Ford car and get spare parts for it from Volvo. I should be able to use Canon lenses on my Nikon DSLR. Face the facts: cross-manufacturer incompatibility is a normal business practice.

Fortunately I can use a third-party adapter to allow me to use Canon lenses on my Nikon, and I can use third-party software to read Amazon books on a Kobo.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by barryem

First let me say I wish ereaders were made by companies who didn't sell ebooks. That, to me, is the single biggest problem with this industry.

Yeah, I agree.

I get 3G Kindles for the most part and I can download books from my library anywhere I happen to be. I can also buy books easily.

I'd agree if 3G were free. As it is, I wonder how often 3G is used. I could imagine myself stuck at that desolate bus stop in North By Northwest and have just finished a book and there's not another already loaded on the device.

I could imagine that, but I don't think it happens in the real world very often.

How often do you utilize the 3G downloading because it is the only option open to you?

Also there's the ability to read on my Kindle and later on my phone and then again on my Kindle and never have to find my place. Each device knows where I am on the other device. That also lets me keep a Kindle by my bed so when I go to bed I don't have to carry it with me. I just go to bed, pick up the one on my night stand and read where I left off on my living room Kindle. Maybe I should also get a bathroom Kindle. Actually a front porch Kindle would make sense but it might walk off.

That is a benefit. No arguments from me on that one.

Now I can also buy audiobooks on my Kindle and synch those as well. I haven't done that and I'm not really expecting to but a lot of people probably will so this has to be considered a benefit.

I don't understand using an ereader to listen to audiobooks unless you are one of the vanishingly small number of people who has a Kindle, but doesn't have a phone.

Just because an ereader can do it doesn't mean it does it as well as something else.

I don't read comics on my ereader either. Though it can handle the format, I never think of it as a benefit and wouldn't cry if it were dropped.

Then there's X-Ray. I used to use that a lot till they "improved" it. Now I just use search to locate characters I've forgotten. It's simpler. But the idea of X-Ray is a very good one.

I've not used X-Ray. Maybe it is a benefit.

I can't say for sure none of these benefits would exist if Amazon only sold the books and the readers were made by Asus or Lenovo or Dell. But my guess is they never would have happened. It requires a lot of coordination between reader maker and book seller and there probably wouldn't have been a lot of motivation for that.

Again, I agree. But given the benefits you stated, versus buying an Acer reader that can purchase ebooks from all the major stores, I know which one I would choose.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by bgalbrecht

...I think it's too bad that most of the ePub ereaders don't support the B&N encryption.

Why? I only ask as I've bought books from B&N, but have never bought any books where I needed to mess with Adobe, so I don't know how the two compare.

I was annoyed when B&N silently changed their encryption scheme as at the time I bought my first Nook, they touted their 'social' DRM.

Once the new way was cracked, it was okay. But I still thought B&N handled the change poorly and they switched from my primary source to a distant second.

One thing I don't like is that all of the retailers selling their own ereaders have dropped the external SD card readers. I have bought a lot of books from all the major retailers (or gotten free ones), and also downloaded from here and Project Gutenberg. None of the currently sold ereaders from Amazon, B&N and Kobo will hold my collection out of the box, but at least Kobo's ereaders can still be upgraded with a larger SD card if I'm willing to void the warranty.

Since e-readers tend to be underpowered devices, how does your Kobo handle having those gigs and gigs of books loaded on it?

I like the idea of loading all my books on a single reader, but haven't done it yet (though the Aura could handle it since it does have an SD card slot).

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I'd agree if 3G were free. As it is, I wonder how often 3G is used. I could imagine myself stuck at that desolate bus stop in North By Northwest and have just finished a book and there's not another already loaded on the device.

It is free for books you've bought from Amazon. There's only a (small) charge for downloading "personal documents" (ie files you've uploaded yourself).

[barryem]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

How often do you utilize the 3G downloading because it is the only option open to you?

Almost never. Maybe never. I may have downloaded a book on 3G at some time but I don't recall. I always have several likely next books on board.

For me the benefit of 3G is being able to access Wikipedia and, sometimes, translation, while I'm away.

Again, I agree. But given the benefits you stated, versus buying an Acer reader that can purchase ebooks from all the major stores, I know which one I would choose.

Me too. It would be great if a lot of manufacturers were competing to bring us the best ereader. Think of the options we'd have! But it's not the way things are or are likely to be so I'm trying to look at the bright side.

Barry

[haertig]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I should be able to buy a Ford car and get spare parts for it from Volvo. I should be able to use Canon lenses on my Nikon DSLR. Face the facts: cross-manufacturer incompatibility is a normal business practice.

And that is also exactly why it is also standard practice, amongst the more technically astute, to remove DRM from the books they buy and convert them to the formats they need. The manufacturers want to arbitrarily limit you to their platform. There is no technical reason for it. The motive for incompatibility lies elsewhere, no doubt rooted in profit.

While car parts may not be interchangeable in your example, the gasoline that powers the cars is interchangeable. While the internal workings of a Ruger revolver are not interchangeable with a Smith & Wesson revolver, the ammunition that is used in them is interchangeable. While the ink jet print heads used by a Hewlett Packard printer are not interchangeable with those used by a Canon printer, the paper you insert into their respective feed trays is interchangeable.

You are conflating the idea of a "manufactured component" and a "consumable". An eBook file is a consumable, not a component. They should be interchangeable.

[4691mls]

Originally Posted by haertig

And that is also exactly why it is also standard practice, amongst the more technically astute, to remove DRM from the books they buy and convert them to the formats they need. The manufacturers want to arbitrarily limit you to their platform. There is no technical reason for it. The motive for incompatibility lies elsewhere, no doubt rooted in profit.

While car parts may not be interchangeable in your example, the gasoline that powers the cars is interchangeable. While the internal workings of a Ruger revolver are not interchangeable with a Smith & Wesson revolver, the ammunition that is used in them is interchangeable. While the ink jet print heads used by a Hewlett Packard printer are not interchangeable with those used by a Canon printer, the paper you insert into their respective feed trays is interchangeable.

You are conflating the idea of a "manufactured component" and a "consumable". An eBook file is a consumable, not a component. They should be interchangeable.

I agree with this. I wouldn't expect Kindle to service or replace a malfunctioning Kobo device. However, it would be nice to be able to buy ebooks from any seller on any device.

I know there are plenty of Mobilereaders who use Calibre or Alf but I expect the majority of people who buy ereaders are like me - they just want to be able to use the device as it comes. A store that doesn't sell ebooks in a format that works on my device as-is has no chance of getting ebook money from me.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by haertig

And that is also exactly why it is also standard practice, amongst the more technically astute, to remove DRM from the books they buy and convert them to the formats they need. The manufacturers want to arbitrarily limit you to their platform.

Which is precisely what I said in the following paragraph of my post that you curiously neglected to quote .

[Dazrin]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I'd agree if 3G were free. As it is, I wonder how often 3G is used. I could imagine myself stuck at that desolate bus stop in North By Northwest and have just finished a book and there's not another already loaded on the device.

I could imagine that, but I don't think it happens in the real world very often.

How often do you utilize the 3G downloading because it is the only option open to you?

My first Kindle had 3G. I used it maybe a dozen times over the 5+ years I owned it. And most of that was when I first got it. If you have a smart phone that can do a hotspot, it is faster and more reliable than the 3G built into the Kindle.

The mainonly reason I would consider 3G these days is for someone who doesn't have a smart phone or wifi and is not technologicaly proficient. If they need something that doesn't rely on owning or having access to any other equipment (phone, wi-fi, computer, etc.) it makes sense. For most others? Not so much.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It is free for books you've bought from Amazon. There's only a (small) charge for downloading "personal documents" (ie files you've uploaded yourself).

Harry,

A wifi Paperwhite 4 is $99.00 (on sale). A Paperwhite 4 with 'free' 3G is $187.49 (on sale). 3G on a Kindle isn't free.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Harry,

A wifi Paperwhite 4 is $99.00 (on sale). A Paperwhite 4 with 'free' 3G is $187.49 (on sale). 3G on a Kindle isn't free.

I was under The obviously mistaken impression that we were discussing usage charges, not the price of the Kindle itself!

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I was under The obviously mistaken impression that we were discussing usage charges, not the price of the Kindle itself!

I figure if 3G is being considered a benefit of using a Kindle and 3G is not part of the standard Kindle model, there has to be a cost-benefit analysis.