TOC with Page #

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by odedta

I understand that page numbers will vary depending on font sizes, is it possible to get a Toc with page numbers that update depending on font size? javascript possibly?

As others have said, not possible in ePub 2, maybe in ePub 3, but note that the reading software would have to read the whole book and paginate in order to compute the page numbers.

It is possible, however, if you convert the ePub into some static format like PDF (and with possible I mean there are tools that can do that automatically).

Originally Posted by PeterT

I have to wonder what the point IS of having page numbers IF they change as you alter font size.

To get some feeling of how long each chapter/section is.

[odedta]

@Jellby: When you change font-size the book is reloaded anyway. Also, for conversion to PDF I can always use the Word or InDesign file I have.

[PeterT]

Originally Posted by odedta

@Jellby: When you change font-size the book is reloaded anyway. Also, for conversion to PDF I can always use the Word or InDesign file I have.

Actually I think you would find that only the current FILE is reloaded; the ereader has no need to reload previous or subsequent files (normally, but I half expect you to have a reason otherwise, a chapter of an eBook is mapped to a single file in the epub).


*** Actually not even reloaded, just redisplayed with the larger font.

[DaleDe]

Actually the file is repaginated and then redisplayed in the larger font. The page boundaries change and if you backup or go forward the pages will still come out the same as if you started over with the chapter.

Dale

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Actually the file is repaginated and then redisplayed in the larger font. The page boundaries change and if you backup or go forward the pages will still come out the same as if you started over with the chapter.

Dale

Yes;

odedta mayn't already know that in an ePUB, it's common that each chapter = file, as well as each section of frontmatter, so, no: the entire book doesn't reload. Only the file in which the reader currently is, reloads. Not the whole book, unless it's extremely short or poorly made, and the entire thing is in a single file.

With regard to your client wanting it, you're simply going to have to explain that that's not how ebooks work, period. Moreover, assuming that s/he intends to publish commercially, on Amazon, you can hand her this, from the Amazon Publishing Guidelines:

3.3.5 TOC Guideline #5: No Page Numbers in TOC
Do not use page numbers in the TOC. Kindle books do not always map directly to page numbers in physical editions of the book.

If you are importing the document from Word, use the “Heading” styles and the "Table of Contents" feature of Microsoft Word. The TOC created by Word will be imported correctly and will convert to a TOC that follows these guidelines.

This isn't a "recommedation" from Amazon. It's a directive. "Do NOT use," not "we suggest you don't use..."

End of discussion. At least, it's certainly the end of the discussion for me. I've spent 5 years trying to accommodate this type of "low-information client" requests, and I've learned the very hard way that it's simply a lot of brain damage, and it's an utter waste of everyone's time. And, odedta, if this is a paying client, you should already know that this isn't doable, and have not only that answer to the ready, but this information from Amazon's Professional Conversion guidelines to hand to give to him/her.

Hitch

[faltradl]

It is possible.

The others are right, it is not possible in the ebook itself. But some reader software can do it. I use CoolReader on my PocketBook, and it shows the TOC with pagenumbers. AdobeReader and FBreader do not.

But what you show is not a TOC. I think it's a table of content in word. If you really whant the same you must use a HTML-table of content, not the TOC. Then you can see it in the normal text like in printet books. But the HTML-table has only HTML-links to the chapters, and no pagenumbers.

Why no pagenumbers? - Because the must be dynamic. The readers have different sizes auf displays, and the users prefer differens fontsizes. So nobody knows the pagenumbers like in printed texts. (Or in PDF, whis ist the simulation of printing.)

Why better TOC than HTML-table of content? - The TOC you can reach every time by one click. To the HTML-table of content you first must navigate to like in printed books.

[odedta]

the ereader has no need to reload previous or subsequent files

On iPad1 and iPad3 (iBooks) when you change the font-size the whole book seems to reload, the scroller on the bottom does the animation of loading the book and it takes the same amount of time for the animation to end as it does when a book is loaded the first time, so I think you're wrong on the fact that only the chapter gets reloaded, on the iPads, I am not sure about other readers, I haven't checked.

odedta mayn't already know that in an ePUB, it's common that each chapter = file, as well as each section of frontmatter, so, no: the entire book doesn't reload. Only the file in which the reader currently is, reloads. Not the whole book, unless it's extremely short or poorly made, and the entire thing is in a single file.

My ePubs are always made to separate files. Thanks for the reference to Amazon's guidelines, that nails it for me

[PeterT]

Geez. Just because APPLE does things a certain way does NOT mean the entire world does it that way.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by PeterT

Geez. Just because APPLE does things a certain way does NOT mean the entire world does it that way.

The page number are screen sized pages and Apple is almost ePub 3 format, not ePub 2. This is a reader feature, not in the document.

Dale

[theducks]

Originally Posted by PeterT

Geez. Just because APPLE does things a certain way does NOT mean the entire world does it that way.

For 30+ years I have resisted buying Apple products because of their 'We are the Only Way' attitude.
I suspect I will be buried in the cold, hard ground, before an Apple device gets Purchased for this household.

Just say: 'I-won't"

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by odedta

On iPad1 and iPad3 (iBooks) when you change the font-size the whole book seems to reload, the scroller on the bottom does the animation of loading the book and it takes the same amount of time for the animation to end as it does when a book is loaded the first time, so I think you're wrong on the fact that only the chapter gets reloaded, on the iPads, I am not sure about other readers, I haven't checked.

{sigh.}. Ok, oh, the IPAD does it. Well, that nails it. On the device upon which your client will sell 1 for every 1,000 books that she sells on OTHER readers, that is the answer, then.

The iBooks app, on the iPad TABLET, is not an e-reader, in the usual sense of the word. It's an app, emulating an e-reader. I mean, let's be clear here. You ever watch how long it takes those teeny little dots to fill in, across the page, when you change the font size, as it repaginates the entire book? Yes, pretty much forever. Apple, thinking that their e-reader had to look (and work) differently than everyone else's, made it repaginate the entire book. Probably 98% of all the other e-readers out there, particularly the real ones, don't work that way. Because they only load one chapter at a time.

if you're acquainted with the recommended file-size limit for epubs (under 256K-ish, for ease of remembrance), it's for that reason: because many of the older devices have a file-size limit. That's for the entire book if it's made as a single file, but the reason that everyone recommends it being for a single "chapter" is because that's how the books are loaded--one file (chapter) at a time. Not the whole book.

My ePubs are always made to separate files. Thanks for the reference to Amazon's guidelines, that nails it for me

As I said before, if you're charging, you should already know this, across the board. You should know it's not possible on the other 98% of readers, and you should know that it's against Amazon's FG. I don't mean to sound rude, but you should.

Can we PLEASE stop talking about this now? I mean, it's a damn dumb request in the first place, and it's undoable on all real e-reading devices. For your client, tell her you magically made it work, show it to her on the ipad, and tell her on any device that SUPPORTS it, it will display. Ta-da! (Please, tell me you don't really do this. it's an aggravated joke.)

Hitch

[odedta]

Lol Hitch! I really enjoyed reading your post, it's good to take out some Apple frustration from time to time :P

Apple's iPad has an App to read eBooks so do other Tablets with Android and so do Windows Tablets, same goes for all sorts of mobile devices so the market share is huge.

The idea of creating a TOC with page number is already out the window, you had me convinced at your first post already.

:/

@theducks: same here, it's work's iPad ;-)

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by odedta

Lol Hitch! I really enjoyed reading your post, it's good to take out some Apple frustration from time to time :P

Apple's iPad has an App to read eBooks so do other Tablets with Android and so do Windows Tablets, same goes for all sorts of mobile devices so the market share is huge.

The idea of creating a TOC with page number is already out the window, you had me convinced at your first post already.

:/

@theducks: same here, it's work's iPad ;-)

odedta:

Yes, of course, the market share for reading APPS is huge, but the market share for the iBooks app is limited to those devices. It's not like you're seeing "iBooks for the Surface Pro" or "iBooks for Droid," right? That was the point I was making. The other reading apps, by and large, operate like regular reading devices. The browser-based apps are not large market shares at this time, like Readium and Azardi.

Hitch

[Toxaris]

Originally Posted by odedta

Apple's iPad has an App to read eBooks so do other Tablets with Android and so do Windows Tablets, same goes for all sorts of mobile devices so the market share is huge.

Like Hitch said, the market is huge but iBooks is not. One gripe with iBooks is that it does not behave as most other reading apps. In the end that may result in having to create an ePUB especially for the iBooks app that is different than for other apps/reading devices. If the market is small, which it is, that is costly.

What iBooks supports is more aPUB than ePUB, or is it iPUB?...

[mrmikel]

Originally Posted by Toxaris

What iBooks supports is more aPUB than ePUB, or is it iPUB?...

All of which makes us bookbangers want to go to a pub!!