Why e-books, e-audiobooks could be harder to snag at your local library

[crane3]

Originally Posted by DNSB

I was looking at the 2018 annual report from one local library. Over the last 4 years the number of pbook checkouts (2015-2018) has dropped while the number ebook checkouts has climbed. Oddly, pbooks show a drop in adult and youth checkouts but an increase in the use of in-library resources.

We might want to meander into the realm of audiobooks where Audible has a policy of no library sales. For one local library, this meant the speaker at their grand opening of their new building had none of her audiobooks available in the library.

Are there multiple companies that produce audiobooks? My library has lots & continues to increase their audiobooks availability.

"My" library also have a row of computers for people to use & another row of computers that is "for browsing the catalogues". At my local library, last I saw, was 2 self checkout stations for pbooks; each station had 3 spots for the people to do the checkout via card & pin.

Also the storage space has been lowered for the pbooks but DVDs/CDs had more space allocated. Streaming doesn't work for Classical Music or Operas as they seem to be just segments, chopped up.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by DNSB

A rather interesting claim. If an ebook and a pbook cost the library the same, the cost of the ebook would be a fraction of the pbook price? What is the basis for that statement? The cost of library staff is going to decline? The cost of their physical plant is going to shrink?

Unless we take a short-term POV, of course it is. Does your union have a contract that says staffing can ever never decline, even by attrition, when their jobs are automated by Overdrive? Or that branches with reduced numbers of patrons will never consolidate? That seems to me politically impossible.

Originally Posted by DNSB

You may also have noticed that today's libraries do much more than warehouse and loan books though that is a major portion of their raison d'être.

It depends on the library. It may be that libraries in Queens NY are more the modern equivalent of immigrant settlement houses than they are book warehouses. Maybe narrative book support, in a Queens library, only takes a third of its mission and staff. But where I am it is much more. I'll therefore stick to my rough implied estimate, in the third paragraph of #75, that 2/3 of physical library costs are attributable to pbook warehousing and lending support.

Originally Posted by DNSB

One item from the IFLA and Sharon Day from the Edmonton Public Library can be found here: Libraries Can't Get Enough eBooks.

Very interesting.

I see some contradictory ideas in this link.

-- There needs to be a balance between needs of libraries and publishers

-- There's no need for a balance because book publishers are irrationally fearful

-- We realize that if what we want happens non-fiction publishing will be so devestated as to requre direct government suppor.

My bullet item immediately above is the only sense I can make of how this next passage fits the rest of the article:

In the meanwhile , the Canadian Urban Libraries Council (CULC) has encouraged the Government of Canada to seek opportunities beyond the Copyright Act to support the creation and sharing of Canadian stories and ideas.

Here's my modest proposal. Canada should pass the kind of copyright changes implied by your link. Then we'll see what happens to the creation and sharing of Canadian ideas over the next couple of decades. My prediction is that books about whomever is your current Prime Minister will become almost unreadable. But if I'm wrong -- if it really looks like there are at least as many wonderful books about Canada's past and present published before and after -- only then should other western countries consider said proposed destruction of the big five model.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

If publishers did that, the total cost of ownership, or of a lend, for the library, of an eBook would be a fraction of the pbook price.

So? And the problem is? The publisher is going to see more money from the library for less in demand books, because all of a sudden the library can afford to go wider in the selection. More obscure books can be purchased that likely only going to see one or two borrows per year.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Unless we take a short-term POV, of course it is. Does your union have a contract that says staffing can ever never decline, even by attrition, when their jobs are automated by Overdrive? Or that branches with reduced numbers of patrons will never consolidate? That seems to me politically impossible.

I can't really speak to that though most of the contracts are available on line. From a quick read through one of the CUPE contracts, attrition is entirely possible as are other means of reducing staff. Of course, the union may take a different view from management as to which staff reductions are allowable. What I was saying that this is not something that is going to happen at a speed described as other than glacial.

As for reduced number of patrons being a cause for consolidation? It's going to be a bit difficult to make the idea fly. Take a look at a map of BC. Notice the number of small towns that are scattered through the province. Most of those towns have their own library which is supported by the municipal and provincial governments plus other local sources. Convincing a town that closing their library and have the patrons drive 100K to the nearest remaining library isn't going to go over well even if the library is part of the same regional library. Of course, the Bowen Island residents are going to appreciate paying for a ferry ride to the mainland to hit the library.

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

I see some contradictory ideas in this link.

-- There needs to be a balance between needs of libraries and publishers

-- There's no need for a balance because book publishers are irrationally fearful

-- We realize that if what we want happens non-fiction publishing will be so devestated as to requre direct government suppor.

My bullet item immediately above is the only sense I can make of how this next passage fits the rest of the article:

Stating that there should be a balance and then stating the reason, as she sees it, for the lack of balance is fear on the part of the publisher is hardly close to "irrationally fearful". Perhaps you can point out where in that article the word irrational or any of its variants was used.

Hmmm... Perhaps making discriminating against libraries when purchasing ebooks and eaudiobooks an act of discrimination under the Human Rights Act?

I would love to see how you read non-fiction publishing will be so "devestated as to requre direct goverment suppor."<stet> from anything in the article. Of course, you may have inside information that authors are compensated above the standard royalty for the sale of an ebook to a library but I have seen nothing that suggests that is the case and, as mentioned before, the few authors I've discussed this with do not seem to seeing such a royalty.

Sort of an aside. The city of New York has an area of 789 km², a population of ~20.1 million and 205 public library branches in 3 systems. The province of BC has an area of 944,735 km² with a population of ~5 million (both population figures are 2019 estimates) and 235 public library branches (many of those branches are part of 13 regional library systems). Pretty well all the library branches participate in the BC Libraries Cooperative (Library 2 Go) to get better pricing on ebook and eaudiobook management -- economy of scale strikes again.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by crane3

Are there multiple companies that produce audiobooks? My library has lots & continues to increase their audiobooks availability.

In the case mentioned, the author had her audiobooks sold through Audible. Audible does not allow libraries to purchase their audiobooks. Other audiobook vendors will sell to libraries with the license priced much higher than the average end user pays but at least, they will allow the libraries to access their catalogues.

[ekbell]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Here's my modest proposal. Canada should pass the kind of copyright changes implied by your link. Then we'll see what happens to the creation and sharing of Canadian ideas over the next couple of decades. My prediction is that books about whomever is your current Prime Minister will become almost unreadable. But if I'm wrong -- if it really looks like there are at least as many wonderful books about Canada's past and present published before and after -- only then should other western countries consider said proposed destruction of the big five model.

At the present point in time many if not most serious Canadian publications are already at least partly subsidized by some federal or provincial Cultural/Heritage program due to the expensive research for a small market problem. There might be a decrease in books or an increase in tax-funded budget size but there's unlikely to be a big difference in viewpoint or quality.

I predict that the few books being written about the good-looking guy with the proper political heritage who is our current prime minister will continue to be much as they are.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by ekbell

I predict that the few books being written about the good-looking guy with the proper political heritage who is our current prime minister will continue to be much as they are.

Could be. As I said, I'm OK with you northerners trying it out. There's some danger of U.S. retaliation for violation of trade laws. But most people down here don't care about books. So long as you don't change the copyright rules for music and film, you'll probably get away with it.

Web search shows that local newspapers are dying in Canada just as in the U.S. Links can be found saying that it's for the same reason -- papers in both countries being bought up by U.S.-based hedge funds. Other links, closer to what I think, say it is happening in many countries, and that a key factor is the ease of getting free content. So Canada could do an experiment. Change Canadian copyright to force the prices libraries pay for eBooks down to the point where there aren't significant waits. Then see what happens to the quality of books about Canada past and present. Of course, that will be a judgment call, but if I'm still around and alert in a few decades (I'm 64 now), I'll be interested to make it.

P.S. I just checked two recent University of Toronto Press history titles at random. Unlike most comparable U.S. university press titles, both were offered to OverDrive. Good job Canada!.

P.P.S. I just noticed that those same Canadians are charging the general public equally for the eBook and the hardcover. Horrors! (Not to me.)

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

So Canada could do an experiment. Change Canadian copyright to force the prices libraries pay for eBooks down to the point where there aren't significant waits. Then see what happens to the quality of books about Canada past and present. Of course, that will be a judgment call, but if I'm still around and alert in a few decades (I'm 64 now), I'll be interested to make it.

I doubt it could or would be done through a change in copyright -- that resides with the author in most cases while the prices are set by the publisher. I would be more likely expect a change that limits the difference between the prices charged to public libraries compared to the prices paid by the consumer for the same book. Possibly with a payment to the author for each loan which would bring them onside. Of course, there will be the usual loopholes to keep the lawyers happy and employed.

[Fiat_Lux]

Originally Posted by John F

Same with a pbooks. Once a pbooks is out in the wild, anyone can make unlimited number of copies.

Rhetoric. I'm guessing not a single library in my state has 10,000,000 books.

http://www.ala.org/tools/libfactshee...aryfactsheet22 is a list of the largest libraries in the US.

Never mind 10,000,000 ebooks.

Both archive.org & books.google.com have more than 10,000,000 ebooks that you can download.

[crane3]

To the original question, I checked my local library & selected Overdrive for the books. Searched for JD Robb as I had borrowed a book that had '4 of 58' books available; decided to satisfy my curious itch.

Interesting that the later books have lots of books while the older books had 2-3 copies. Makes me think that there is also a "rental" pricing also?? If the prices for ebooks are so high, wonder why so many copies of the later books; don't know if the older ebooks started with more copies available & got reduced or just started with the limited copies.

Perhaps other libraries do the same??

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by crane3

Interesting that the later books have lots of books while the older books had 2-3 copies. Makes me think that there is also a "rental" pricing also?? If the prices for ebooks are so high, wonder why so many copies of the later books; don't know if the older ebooks started with more copies available & got reduced or just started with the limited copies.

Some publishers (don’t remember which) do impose a limit on the number of borrows. So the library would have to keep replacing them to keep them in circulation. It would explain the pattern you are seeing.

[Fiat_Lux]

Originally Posted by leebase

We have a reasonable model. A library buys a certain amount of books. People wait for the most popular titles. Meanwhile there are lots of others one can read.

There are no restrictions on the number of times a purchased pbook can be borrowed, read, or retained in the library.

Depending upon the terms and conditions of the specific leased pbook, there are restrictions on how long it can be retained by the library. Some leases also require that the specific pbook be non-circulating only.

Pbooks with licenses, but not leases, typically have restrictions on the duration of the license, and a requirement that the item be non-circulating. (There are pbooks with licenses, rather than leases. They tend to have a very specific niche audience, and a price tag that is well into the five digit range. About the only good thing, is that virtually the only time the publisher enforces the license, is when people are distributing copies of the book. However, when they enforce the terms of the license, they file both criminal and civil charges against everybody.)

By contrast, ebook licenses have terms and conditions that restrict the number of times the item can be leased, the number of patrons that can lease the item, and how long the patron can hold the item. Furthermore, there are also restrictions on how long the library can license the book for. The most egregious ebook license I've come across, counted each time a patron opened the ebook, and once the ebook had been opened x times, the lease was terminated.

[Fiat_Lux]

Originally Posted by crane3

I don't know how ebooks are purchased by the libraries but in my area multiple copies of printed books are bought.

In the last decade, libraries have migrated to leasing popular pbooks. I've forgotten what book it was, but the library started out with 200 copies, dropped to 100 copies six months out, 50 copies at a year out, 5 copies two years out, and 1 copy three year out. The only copy they purchased, was that single copy, three years after the lease on the original 200 had expired.

The (my) county library system should have available the same number of copies of ebooks as that of the printed books for lending to the public. Cannot understand why the restrictions on the number of copies on ebooks vs the pbooks purchased. Is there a much higher markup for ebooks so that the libraries won't purchase as many pbooks?

A library can have multiple copies of the ebook, but it comes down to "do we have 2 copies of the latest Harry Potter, or do we have one copy of the latest Harry Potter, and one copy of whatever is #1 on the NY Times Best Seller list?"

[Fiat_Lux]

Originally Posted by leebase

Buy yourself a copy.

For front-list and mid-list titles that usually possible. For back-list titles, that is an iffy proposition. For out-of-print titles, you're relying on your local used book dealer to be able to find a copy, at a reasonable price. I still have a problem with the used book store that was asking US$100 for a reader's copy ex-library book club edition of Luttwak's Coup D'e Etat.

Just as ebooks sold/licensed to individuals are at prices having nothing to do with the cost of manufacture....the same is with libraries. Libraries will stock the books according to their own logic and budget.

As a general rule of thumb, public libraries want to have books that their local population will utilize. Having the local population complain about titles not being available, is the best way to ensure dissatisfied and frustrated librarians.

None of that matters to an individual who can merely buy a book or read any of the others that are available at the time at the library.

So if I want to find out what the technical specs of the Lockhead A-12 are, I should buy a copy of Jane's All the World's Aircraft 1992, instead of looking for a copy in the local library? (I probably got the year that it first appeared in the annual, wrong.)

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Fiat_Lux

So if I want to find out what the technical specs of the Lockhead A-12 are, I should buy a copy of Jane's All the World's Aircraft 1992, instead of looking for a copy in the local library? (I probably got the year that it first appeared in the annual, wrong.)

It was fun when I went looking for the specs on a F-101 Voodoo (the RF-101C reconnaissance variant). The author had a pair of gentlemen who found a crashed Voodoo in the Amazon rain forest that had basically turned to mound of rust in the 30+ years since it crashed during the Vietnam war era. This bugged me since I vaguely remembered the major metal used in aircraft in that era was aluminum alloys which may corrode but don't turn into a pile of rust.