MobileRead Administration: New years reading categories

I like the having two classics months because it is not really a genre in the way say Sci-Fi or Mystery is. It represents books that have stood the test of time and are still read and discussed. The test of time (i.e. not recent) being one of the defining attributes of a classic. The free part is just an added benefit. I would strongly object to having a month devoted to any ebook that is free, including selections such as Free First Book by Who The Hell? offered as a promotion.

I actually would be warm to the idea of a prize winner month. It would have to be a major prize though, say as others have suggested Nobel or Pulitzer. Not best Science Fiction of the year, or anything like that. One thing to keep in mind though is that the Nobel prize is an award to an author while the Pulitzer is an award to a book. However, I am with Sun Surfer in that if we are going to add a prize winner month I would prefer making room for it by combining two very similar genres that each now have a month into one month for the two.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Why not a prize winner regardless of the prize and year?

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. What I mean to say, Jon, is that perhaps in 2012, for example, we could have a category for books that have won major prizes (such as the Nobel Prize for Literature). I didn't mean to imply that only books that win prizes in 2012 should be nominated. The nominations could be for award winning books published in any year. Sorry for the confusion.

[HomeInMyShoes]

...removed...

[issybird]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

But time is relative. For us who have ultra short term nostalgia, Douglas Coupland's Generation X is a classic. I know most people understand it's usually older than that, but I dislike that we elevate old above contemporary in so many things. Good fiction is good fiction. Good science fiction is good science fiction.

With recent fiction, as with fashion and music, it's a little too easy to conflate new or popular with quality. There was a time when shag haircuts were considered attractive. Moreover, all old things are not equal and most old things have been consigned (rightfully) to oblivion. There seems to be a cycle: Current/dated/classic, but it's the rare book that makes it to the last category. Classic isn't necessarily better than something current, but it's time-tested. Most things of a similar vintage are dross and deservedly forgotten.

In addition, as sunsurfer and Hamlet53 have pointed out, it's hair-splitting to say that mystery and thriller, sci fi and fantasy are different genres, but that classic is undifferentiated. That's semantics, not serious genre classification. And when you consider the broader scope implicit in the category of classic, taking a month away from classics seems illogical on the face of it.

I'd say, let's be fair! If two classic months are one too many, let's also take a month away from mystery/thriller and SFF.

[Nyssa]

Science Fiction and Fantasy ARE different. Science Fiction's base is in science & technology, where as, Fantasy's base is magic & the supernatural/paranormal. It just so happens that both genres can be easily intermixed.

Originally Posted by Nyssa

Science Fiction and Fantsy ARE different. Science Fiction's base is in Science & technology where as Fantasy's base is magic & the supernatural/ paranormal. It just so happens that both genres can be easily intermixed.

I guess to a botanist standing in the middle of the forest the different species of trees seem readily apparent. From a distance though . . .

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

I guess to a botanist standing in the middle of the forest the different species of trees seem readily apparent. From a distance though . . .

How would one know a classic is a classic other than to look at it? Its all the same thing in the end, is it not? A book is just a book until its read.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

I guess to a botanist standing in the middle of the forest the different species of trees seem readily apparent. From a distance though . . .

And each botanist has picked his own forest and prides himself on how pretty and varied his trees are, not like the other guy's forest, which is dreary and all of a sort! Which is why [schoolmarmish voice] it behooves us all to strive to be evenhanded. Let each forest have its day in the sun. [/schoolmarmish voice]

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by issybird

And each botanist has picked his own forest and prides himself on how pretty and varied his trees are, not like the other guy's forest, which is dreary and all of a sort! Which is why [schoolmarmish voice] it behooves us all to strive to be evenhanded. Let each forest have its day in the sun. [/schoolmarmish voice]*

*emphasis added by me


Exactly! Which, again, is why I asked that it be put to a vote since there are some who are happy with the way things are, and others who are not.

[issybird]

Nyssa, I think we keep talking past each other. What I have been repeating ad nauseam is that it seems unjust to me to pick ONE category and say, "I don't like that. Let's put it to a vote and change it."

I've got two issues with it. One is that I think either the whole ball o'wax should be reexamined, or it should be let go. Don't zero in on the one area you dislike and try for a plebiscite to eliminate it.

Two is that with this method, there is the serious risk that the barest majority will dictate all the terms to the other 49% of the membership. You might think that's fair (winner takes all), but I don't think it's tolerant or generous.

Way upthread, I said I thought it was fair to have a couple of months devoted to SFF. I don't like those, but so what? Maybe a book will strike my fancy or worst case scenario, I'll drop out for a month. I may dislike some categories, but that doesn't mean I'm unhappy with the way things are.

I'm having a very, very hard time understanding why having two months of classics is a dealbreaker. Why should just that one extra month in a category you dislike make you so unhappy? Despite your assertion, I have indeed read everything you've posted and I still don't understand. And once you start talking about making it "better" then the waters get very muddy. Better for whom? And at what cost to others?

[HomeInMyShoes]

I agree with almost everything being said. In the end we are lumpers or splitters. Right now I'm a bit of a lumper, but I know that can change every day. To me science fiction and fantasy are vastly different. But, as with any taxonomy, your mileage will vary. Add in that some books fit multiple categories and it's worse.

My final answer. I move we only have one classic month. For the second one, I'm going to vote that we have a razzie month and pick from the very worst in any genre. We'll call it the Mystery Science Theatre 3000 -- I can hear the lawsuits already -- category and the discussion can be for entertainment purposes.

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by issybird

Nyssa, I think we keep talking past each other. What I have been repeating ad nauseam is that it seems unjust to me to pick ONE category and say, "I don't like that. Let's put it to a vote and change it."

I've got two issues with it. One is that I think either the whole ball o'wax should be reexamined, or it should be let go. Don't zero in on the one area you dislike and try for a plebiscite to eliminate it.

Two is that with this method, there is the serious risk that the barest majority will dictate all the terms to the other 49% of the membership. You might think that's fair (winner takes all), but I don't think it's tolerant or generous.

Way upthread, I said I thought it was fair to have a couple of months devoted to SFF. I don't like those, but so what? Maybe a book will strike my fancy or worst case scenario, I'll drop out for a month. I may dislike some categories, but that doesn't mean I'm unhappy with the way things are.

I'm having a very, very hard time understanding why having two months of classics is a dealbreaker. Why should just that one extra month in a category you dislike make you so unhappy? Despite your assertion, I have indeed read everything you've posted and I still don't understand. And once you start talking about making it "better" then the waters get very muddy. Better for whom? And at what cost to others?

The most "recent" question/concern was having two months devoted to classics. Seeing as I had an issue with it as well, I spoke up, as being one of the members who would like to see it change. I've never said it was a deal-breaker, nor have I tried to throw classics or any other genres under the bus. I have said more than once that I would like to change one of the two "classic" months since I now know that it really is not my thing. I have no problem redoing the whole kit & caboodle, but no one really seems interested in doing that. Plus, I am fine with the other 11 months, so for me, its back to changing one of the two months in question.

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

I agree with almost everything being said. In the end we are lumpers or splitters. Right now I'm a bit of a lumper, but I know that can change every day. To me science fiction and fantasy are vastly different. But, as with any taxonomy, your mileage will vary. Add in that some books fit multiple categories and it's worse.

My final answer. I move we only have one classic month. For the second one, I'm going to vote that we have a razzie month and pick from the very worst in any genre. We'll call it the Mystery Science Theatre 3000 -- I can hear the lawsuits already -- category and the discussion can be for entertainment purposes.

A razzie month...now that is both a cool and hilarious idea! I don't see it happening, though. We would have a much better chance going the award-winner route.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

I would strongly object to having a month devoted to any ebook that is free, including selections such as Free First Book by Who The Hell? offered as a promotion.

I doubt that Free First Book would get the required number of nominations, and if it did, I doubt it would be voted as the selection of choice.

I actually would be warm to the idea of a prize winner month. It would have to be a major prize though, say as others have suggested Nobel or Pulitzer. Not best Science Fiction of the year, or anything like that.

I like the idea of "literary prize winner," and I'd be happy with "any prize for literature." Locus Magazine's Best SF of the year, Hugo winner, Newberry award, Lambda award, the Eppies--anything. Because, again, I trust the selection process--needing several nominations to be on the ballot, and then needing to win the vote, means that it's not likely that a RITA award winner is going to be the selection of the month. (And if it is, hey. It probably has a broad appeal outside the romance genre to get that many votes.)

The nominations thread alone would give several of us fascinating books to consider, some of which would be far outside of our normal reading range.

Originally Posted by issybird

I'm having a very, very hard time understanding why having two months of classics is a dealbreaker.

I know this wasn't aimed at me; am commenting anyway.

Two months of classics isn't a dealbreaker, but it'd be nice to have each month have a different scope. After all, with the nomination process as it is, we could theoretically throw open every month for anything. And there've been arguments about "this or that book is not really in category X," but they're brushed aside with, "well, then people won't vote for it." (And that seems to work just fine.)

I like the idea of every month having a different range of books, even if there's a lot of potential overlap. SF & mystery aren't mutually exclusive categories; fantasy & romance sometimes overlap; we have SF classics, and so on. A different category wouldn't exclude all classics (unless it were specifically "books less than 20 years old" or something like that), but it could bring in a range of books that aren't currently allowed except for in the free-for-all month.

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I doubt that Free First Book would get the required number of nominations, and if it did, I doubt it would be voted as the selection of choice.



I like the idea of "literary prize winner," and I'd be happy with "any prize for literature." Locus Magazine's Best SF of the year, Hugo winner, Newberry award, Lambda award, the Eppies--anything. Because, again, I trust the selection process--needing several nominations to be on the ballot, and then needing to win the vote, means that it's not likely that a RITA award winner is going to be the selection of the month. (And if it is, hey. It probably has a broad appeal outside the romance genre to get that many votes.)

The nominations thread alone would give several of us fascinating books to consider, some of which would be far outside of our normal reading range.



I know this wasn't aimed at me; am commenting anyway.

Two months of classics isn't a dealbreaker, but it'd be nice to have each month have a different scope. After all, with the nomination process as it is, we could theoretically throw open every month for anything. And there've been arguments about "this or that book is not really in category X," but they're brushed aside with, "well, then people won't vote for it." (And that seems to work just fine.)

I like the idea of every month having a different range of books, even if there's a lot of potential overlap. SF & mystery aren't mutually exclusive categories; fantasy & romance sometimes overlap; we have SF classics, and so on. A different category wouldn't exclude all classics (unless it were specifically "books less than 20 years old" or something like that), but it could bring in a range of books that aren't currently allowed except for in the free-for-all month.

Very well said, I wish I was able to phrase it the way you have! I love your whole post and I have highlighted/emboldened the points that I agree with the most. Thank you for expressing what I couldn't.

[VioletVal]

I think it makes sense to use polls to decide this issue, but have potentially two separate polls. The first would be a simple yes or no poll asking if you want the second classic month to change categories. Then, if the majority votes yes, we can have another poll for what we would like the category to be.

ETA: That way, if most people want the category changed, then at least everyone else has a say as to what that category would be.