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Old 06-19-2016, 03:47 AM   #16
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You mean everyone isn't one of us - I often photocopy/print the endnotes.

BR
ANOTHER one. Slowly but surely, the shunned ones emerge from the dark...




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Old 06-19-2016, 09:12 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Ghitulescu View Post
I wonder whether it is possible to implement a sort of history.back(-1) in an ePub, as not all eReaders allow such a functionality?
@Ghitulescu: I experimented with this some time ago, but finally gave up on it, because it'd require ePub3 apps/readers with JavaScript support. And since most ePub3 apps also have popup footnote support, it's somewhat pointless to implement a JavaScript solution.

(For more information on popup footnotes, see this post.)

My (valid) ePub3 test file uses onload, onclick and localStorage to save the id of the footnote reference and to dynamically generate backlinks that simulate the back button.
The book contains 3 chapters with identical footnote links and a footnotes html file with dummy definitions.
For debugging purposes the ePub will also display the id of the calling footnote reference and the href of the backlink via alert().
However, the only mobile app that it worked with was iBooks for iOS and the only PC ebook app it worked with was ADE 4.5.x.
(It also works with Sigil 0.9.5 or higher.)

However, since I only have very limited JavaScript skills, it's quite possible that there's a subtle JavaScript bug that I missed. I attached my file to his post so that ebook designers with much better JavaScript skills than me can have a look at it.

BTW, if you open the book with an ePub app without JavaScript support, the footnotes won't have backlinks, but the footnote links should still work.
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File Type: epub dynamic_links_epub3x.epub (32.1 KB, 122 views)
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Old 06-19-2016, 05:25 PM   #18
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Indeed--I'd considered this sort of idea. Create a bunch of duplicate landing points that are effectively invisible, but that work. For this particular project, however, they are actual large sections of the book. e.g., "See Resources/Veterinarians," with 100 listings, and the like. It wouldn't be a trivial amount of repetitive content--and out of curiosity, how are you then "hiding it" from those paging through? Are you assuming that folks won't read the footnotes sequentially, or? Where are you putting them that's hidden from the casual thumber?
Yeah, each "footnote" is on its own page in the back of the book. Yes, assuming they won't flip through them. I mean, I'm specifically doing it with a sort of glossary, which is in a separate section from the actual footnotes, and I don't know anyone who likes to just read a glossary

But yeah, if you're linking to content in the book, this workaround wouldn't apply.

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@Ghitulescu:I experimented with this some time ago, but finally gave up on it, because it'd require ePub3 apps/readers with JavaScript support. And since most ePub3 apps also have popup footnote support, it's somewhat pointless to implement a JavaScript solution.

...

My (valid) ePub3 test file uses onload, onclick and localStorage to save the id of the footnote reference and to dynamically generate backlinks that simulate the back button.
The book contains 3 chapters with identical footnote links and a footnotes html file with dummy definitions.
For debugging purposes the ePub will also display the id of the calling footnote reference and the href of the backlink via alert().
However, the only mobile app that it worked with was iBooks for iOS and the only PC ebook app it worked with was ADE 4.5.x.

...

However, since I only have very limited JavaScript skills, it's quite possible that there's a subtle JavaScript bug that I missed. I attached my file to his post so that ebook designers with much better JavaScript skills than me can have a look at it.

BTW, if you open the book with an ePub app without JavaScript support, the footnotes won't have backlinks, but the footnote links should still work.
Um, wow. Mega props, Doitsu! If you don't mind, I just might use this at some point...

Last edited by mattmc; 06-19-2016 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 06-19-2016, 10:39 PM   #19
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Yeah, each "footnote" is on its own page in the back of the book. Yes, assuming they won't flip through them. I mean, I'm specifically doing it with a sort of glossary, which is in a separate section from the actual footnotes, and I don't know anyone who likes to just read a glossary
You don't? You do now, if internet-knowing counts.
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But yeah, if you're linking to content in the book, this workaround wouldn't apply.
Yeah. Suckage.

Quote:
Um, wow. Mega props, Doitsu! If you don't mind, I just might use this at some point...
I know, it's tasty, right? I've squirreled this little acorn away with my stuff from you and other nut--uh, guys! :-)

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Old 06-20-2016, 05:43 AM   #20
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I am also of the opinion that a piece of anything, if not correctly working, should not be bought and used. This is often referred to as "voting with the purse".

However, for now on I am stuck with some hardware ereaders that have a back function and with an otherwise excellent ereader for android that has not this.

Meanwhile, searching the net I noticed that there might be a newer version of gitden, as many screenshots do show a back function.

I prefer to stay with epub2.0.
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Old 06-21-2016, 01:13 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
Are you assuming that folks won't read the footnotes sequentially, or? Where are you putting them that's hidden from the casual thumber?

(I'm one of those. Yes, it's true, I confess--I tend to read footnotes by themselves! The Horror, I know, but...)

Hitch
Well, I'd say if the reader is so casual that they don't realize they have read that same footnote thrice before, they can only benefit from reading it a fourth time.


Spoiler:
Yes, I know that's not what you meant...
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Old 06-21-2016, 03:58 AM   #22
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Well, I'd say if the reader is so casual that they don't realize they have read that same footnote thrice before, they can only benefit from reading it a fourth time.
History books greatly benefit from reading the same footnote twice or as many times as one need. So do many technical books. Even the comments on the Bible should be read many times

For now I copy/paste the same note over and over and renumber it/them accordingly. Not a big problem. Not very elegant either.
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Old 06-29-2016, 01:45 AM   #23
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I'm not expert enough to answer the following question, nor in a position to experiment but... as long as there was no more than one link to the common target from a single html page (ie: in the chapter) could you link in a different css for each chapter with a different set of css variables? (If there was more than one link in the chapter, you'd only be able to pick one variable to come back to even with this hacky idea.)

Then if there was no css linked in the target's html, could it inherit the css of the preceding html page? If so, you could set the variables in the chapter's linked css and the target's html would use them.

So, in every chapter that you want a different return value you vary that value in the css variable.

Probably wouldn't work, but if there is a way to force that inheritance, it might. @import, maybe? I'm probably way off base here -- surely when you jump between an epub's internal documents, all prior css is lost...

2¢, and worth every penny.

Aloha.

ps: @document in your master css with nested anchor tags for every origin link at the target? So when you leave chapter 17 for the target html you link to its <a href="target.html#chapter17"> anchor, and your CSS variable gets applied? I don't know if the URL can include anchors for @document. ... or maybe a unique string in that anchor, and use the regexp function of @document?

pss: I bet variables don't work in most devices anyway.

psss: @document and symbolic links?

Last edited by capidamonte; 06-29-2016 at 02:20 AM. Reason: addendum
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Old 06-29-2016, 01:55 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by capidamonte View Post
I'm not expert enough to answer the following question, nor in a position to experiment but... as long as there was no more than one link to the common target from a single html page (ie: in the chapter) could you link in a different css for each chapter with a different set of css variables? (If there was more than one link in the chapter, you'd only be able to pick one variable to come back to even with this hacky idea.)

Then if there was no css linked in the target's html, could it inherit the css of the preceding html page? If so, you could set the variables in the chapter's linked css and the target's html would use them.

So, in every chapter that you want a different return value you vary that value in the css variable.

Probably wouldn't work, but if there is a way to force that inheritance, it might. @import, maybe? I'm probably way off base here -- surely when you jump between an epubs internal documents, all prior css is lost...

2¢, and worth every penny.

Aloha.

ps: @document in your master css with nested anchor tags for every origin link at the target? So when you leave chapter 17 for the target html you link to its <a href="target.html#chapter17"> anchor, and your CSS variable gets applied? I don't know if the URL can include anchors for @document. ... or maybe a unique string in that anchor, and use the regexp function of @document?
Cap:

Sweetie, you intrigue me, you do. I may give that a go this weekend, if I get some free time. Hmmmmmm....although knowing Tex, he may leap into testing it first. :-)

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Old 06-30-2016, 11:56 PM   #25
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Hey, Your Hitchness!

I didn't see your reply before I PSSSed. I actually think the best bet is @document with symbolic links. And this all requires the reader to support variables in the first place, of course. Since most readers are based on some sort of linux, symbolic links would give you the simple html address that would work with @document.

Hope you are well, and mucho aloha.
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Old 07-01-2016, 04:37 AM   #26
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Hey, Your Hitchness!

I didn't see your reply before I PSSSed. I actually think the best bet is @document with symbolic links. And this all requires the reader to support variables in the first place, of course. Since most readers are based on some sort of linux, symbolic links would give you the simple html address that would work with @document.

Hope you are well, and mucho aloha.
We're pretty good here, SOSO, you know how it is.

I just pulled my ancient carcass out of bed---pulled a 36-hour "shift," so I'm a bit ragged round the edges. I'll look at this again when I'm less bedraggled. Can't seem to do those long days like I used to!

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Old 07-03-2016, 08:22 PM   #27
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Hey, Your Hitchness!

I didn't see your reply before I PSSSed.
I don't know if that was intentional, but

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I actually think the best bet is @document with symbolic links. And this all requires the reader to support variables in the first place, of course. Since most readers are based on some sort of linux, symbolic links would give you the simple html address that would work with @document.
I appreciate your unconventional ideas, but you're a little off-target here. Symlinks are a *nix OS thing, they don't exist in an ebook rendering environment. That's like saying you should embed a (Windows) Start button in your Microsoft Word document. These things are not quite on the same plane of existence.

Unfortunately, the problem boils down to one of state. If you want a backlink to change based on where the reader came from, you want your application to have a state. Full EPUB2 compatibility, AFAIK, means no Javascript, and no JS means no state. No amount of tricky CSS styling will get you anywhere, as that stuff is stateless.

Funny, as I'm about to hit Submit Reply, I actually understood what you meant by symlinks. If you could have each of your hyperlinks hit a symlink that went to the same document, but somehow "defined a different URI for where you were", you could then use the @document directive to use CSS to hide/show the appropriate backlinks. Huh. 10 points for cleverness, but yeah, symlinks are out and @document is an experimental CSS feature :/
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Old 07-03-2016, 08:36 PM   #28
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Your last paragraph is what I mean, yes. Did you actually try it?

There is definitely a file system, and the link file can be part of that system. The application that is running on your device is probably running a Linux kernel, and in Linux environment everything is accessible as a file. No state required, I don't think.

Yes, @document is experimental. But do you know whether it is actually working in any devices or not?

I've touched on these points in my original suggestion, and I still think it needs to be tried. It may well not work, for exactly the reason that @document may not be supported, CSS variables may not be supported. Should still be tried, because it's pretty simple and it just might work and it isn't difficult to test.

Aloha, and thanks for responding. And for understanding what I was trying to suggest.
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Old 07-03-2016, 11:36 PM   #29
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Your last paragraph is what I mean, yes. Did you actually try it?

There is definitely a file system, and the link file can be part of that system. The application that is running on your device is probably running a Linux kernel, and in Linux environment everything is accessible as a file. No state required, I don't think.

Yes, @document is experimental. But do you know whether it is actually working in any devices or not?

I've touched on these points in my original suggestion, and I still think it needs to be tried. It may well not work, for exactly the reason that @document may not be supported, CSS variables may not be supported. Should still be tried, because it's pretty simple and it just might work and it isn't difficult to test.

Aloha, and thanks for responding. And for understanding what I was trying to suggest.
Yeah, unfortunately the symlink thing would leave out all Windows-based stuff. So...tricky.

Per this article: https://css-tricks.com/the-at-rules-of-css/
@document is compatible with almost nothing as of May 2015.

Given that evidence, and my limited time, I think I won't work on it further...but I appreciate the out-of-the-box thinking
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Old 07-04-2016, 01:05 AM   #30
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Yes, @document is experimental. But do you know whether it is actually working in any devices or not?
It's CSS level 4, and is currently supported only by the Gecko (Firefox) rendering engine. So basically, unless somebody builds an eBook reader based on Gecko, it is safe to say that it isn't supported anywhere.

If @document were supported in Safari, you might have a chance with the WebKit-based readers, but it isn't. See:

https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51172
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