06-18-2013, 10:14 AM | #61 | |
Wizard
Posts: 2,743
Karma: 32912427
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Yorkshire, UK
Device: Kobo H20, Pixel 2, Samsung Chromebook Plus
|
Quote:
The original email as presented by the DoJ looked pretty damning; then we had Cue showing that it was just a draft, and presenting the 'real' version of the email, which was more favourable to Apple. Now we know that Cue's version was also just a draft, and an earlier draft at that, and it looks as though Jobs didn't actually send any of the versions to Cue. Graham |
|
06-21-2013, 07:27 AM | #62 |
The Dank Side of the Moon
Posts: 35,872
Karma: 118716293
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
|
Summation from Apple: If you rule against us, it's the end of the world!
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06...ing_arguments/ |
06-21-2013, 10:45 AM | #63 |
Wizard
Posts: 1,531
Karma: 8059866
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Canada
Device: Kobo H2O / Aura HD / Glo / iPad3
|
So the summary of Apple's arguments are:
"We didn't do anything wrong because this is the way we always do business." "We're Apple, we're good, we hire a lot of people in the USA so we didn't do anything wrong" "We didn't conspire because our negotiations were very tough and they would have been much easier if we were conspiring." "Steve Jobs was very confused when he wrote that draft email and he never sent it. He later corrected him self in an earlier draft of the email which he also never sent." "We weren't the ring leader in this because B&N earlier talked to the publishers about the same idea." "If you punish us it will send shivers through other businesses that want to rig a market so they don't have to compete on price while allowing publishers to conspire to artificially raise prices at the expense of consumers." Sounds iron clad to me. The judge will obviously rule in their favour. I was actually disappointed in the DoJ case. I think they could have done a much better job. I don't know why they didn't bring in the Walt Mossberg video from the iPad launch where Steve Jobs told him the prices would be the same, all prior to the publishers telling Amazon. |
06-21-2013, 11:00 AM | #64 | |
The Dank Side of the Moon
Posts: 35,872
Karma: 118716293
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
|
Quote:
|
|
06-21-2013, 12:11 PM | #65 |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 11,732
Karma: 128354696
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 26 kly from Sgr A*
Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000
|
|
06-21-2013, 12:19 PM | #66 | |
Karma Kameleon
Posts: 2,934
Karma: 26616647
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: iPad Mini, iPhone X, Kindle Fire Tab HD 8, Walmart Onn
|
Quote:
Apple never had to make the case "there was no conspiracy" only "Apple did not conspire". The fact that they negotiated with the publishers individually, argued over different terms...sure makes it difficult to prove a conspiracy. Apple also did not have to defend the raising of ebook prices. It's the publishers who set prices...Apple need only set things up to make it possible to sell ebooks at a profit. The Most Favored Nation clause does that. Now it doesn't matter to Apple whether or not Amazon sells books at a loss...Apple could match the prices and still make money. The publishers ALREADY had a reason to resent Amazon's predatory pricing completely without Apple. Basically Amazon made it such that NOBODY BUT AMAZON could afford to sell ebooks. Of couse, I don't expect anyone's opinion to change. |
|
06-21-2013, 12:26 PM | #67 |
monkey on the fringe
Posts: 45,477
Karma: 158151390
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Seattle Metro
Device: Moto E6, Echo Show
|
|
06-21-2013, 12:28 PM | #68 | |
Karma Kameleon
Posts: 2,934
Karma: 26616647
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: iPad Mini, iPhone X, Kindle Fire Tab HD 8, Walmart Onn
|
Quote:
Apple never had to prove anything about pricing....but if the publishers had gone to court, they could have argued that Agency pricing gave THEM not Amazon, pricing power. But that does nothing to say that CONSUMERS are harmed as there is near infinite choices for books on the market. No one has to buy a Stephen King novel. If the publishers price it too high, one could buy a DIFFERENT book. And there are millions of books available for sale far lower than a new release ebook. Lee |
|
06-21-2013, 12:33 PM | #69 | |
Karma Kameleon
Posts: 2,934
Karma: 26616647
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: iPad Mini, iPhone X, Kindle Fire Tab HD 8, Walmart Onn
|
Quote:
Apple who's device has Apps from all the book stores, including Amazon. That's the company threatening the market. Not the 800lb gorilla who controls both physical and ebook sales and who's book reader only works with Amazon sold books? I wish the sales numbers would have come out in the trial. It is very evident that Amazon sells more books to iPad/iPhone owners than Apple does. Probably 3 times more. Even now -- after agency pricing. |
|
06-21-2013, 12:36 PM | #70 |
Karma Kameleon
Posts: 2,934
Karma: 26616647
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: iPad Mini, iPhone X, Kindle Fire Tab HD 8, Walmart Onn
|
Heaven forbid a retailer would require the ability to sell products at a profit. Amazon buying ebooks from the publishers at $12.50 and selling them at $9.99 -- the ENTIRE NY TIMES BEST SELLERS list -- would keep ANYONE from being able to compete.
And books STILL have to compete on price....among all the other things books have to compete on. It's merely that the publishers get to set that price. A publisher who sets a price too high, won't sell their product. |
06-21-2013, 12:42 PM | #71 | |
Karma Kameleon
Posts: 2,934
Karma: 26616647
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: iPad Mini, iPhone X, Kindle Fire Tab HD 8, Walmart Onn
|
Quote:
And with the rise of ebooks came the threat to the publishers hard back sales. And yes, Amazon will make more money selling ebooks. But without that huge price incentive, they would never have gotten the kindle off the ground. |
|
06-21-2013, 12:50 PM | #72 | |
Karma Kameleon
Posts: 2,934
Karma: 26616647
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: iPad Mini, iPhone X, Kindle Fire Tab HD 8, Walmart Onn
|
Quote:
The publishers did not need Amazon to go with the Agency model. They would have withheld the ebooks, "windowing" them -- just as they do with the paperback versions. |
|
06-21-2013, 01:14 PM | #73 |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 27,549
Karma: 193191846
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
|
They may have slapped a $26 list price on their new-releases, but there was damn-few people ever paying that price. MSRP to the discounted retail price is never a valid comparison. Every single book-seller in the world (e- and physical) were guilty of "devalueing" the publishers' hard-cover releases
|
06-21-2013, 02:39 PM | #74 | |
Karma Kameleon
Posts: 2,934
Karma: 26616647
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: iPad Mini, iPhone X, Kindle Fire Tab HD 8, Walmart Onn
|
Quote:
Even when Walmart and Costco would use the release of a Harry Potter book as a lost leader to get folks into the stores, they didn't set the price at $9.99 Nobody is expected to continue to do business in a way that's harmful to their business. The publishers had a rogue but very powerful retailer who was using predatory pricing to buy marketshare at the expense of the Publisher's very own business. Your ability as a consumer to shop on price remains unchanged. If the publishers charge more for an ebook than you are willing to pay, you simply don't buy the book. This whole notion of "raise prices" is a misnomer. It accepts the $9.99 "sell at a loss price" that Amazon was practicing as the basis of comparison. Even at $14.99, the price of a new ebook is cheaper than the "listed at $28 and sold on sale for $22" price of the hardback. The price competition still exists. Do I buy xyz book from publisher A for $14.99 or do I buy abc book from indie author B for $1.99? Or read any of the millions of free ebooks...etc. etc. The publishers simple didn't have the power -- before Apple -- to deal with Amazon. The publishers STILL have to deal with the consumer. |
|
06-21-2013, 03:01 PM | #75 |
The Dank Side of the Moon
Posts: 35,872
Karma: 118716293
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
|
Lee, do you work for Apple?
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
US Justice Dept accuses Apple of eBook Price Fixing | MickeyC | News | 113 | 06-01-2013 08:43 PM |
Apple loses Galaxy Tab court case in Australia | sabredog | News | 4 | 12-09-2011 03:13 PM |
Ebook price fixing investigation in Europe. | danskmacabre | Kobo Reader | 5 | 12-08-2011 12:58 PM |
Conn AG targets Amazon and Apple for price-fixing | gastan | News | 4 | 08-05-2010 09:47 AM |