Arbitrary breaks in long paragraphs

vampiregrave · 11-27-2012, 05:06 PM

I've been struggling with a specific article with very long paragraphs. When i preview the epub file using calibre and ADE there's absolutely no problem, but when i test it in my Kobo Glo i find several arbitrary breaks, sometimes in the middle of the screen. As far as i can tell the problem resides in the lenght of the paragraphs. Is there any way to fix the behavior?

Terisa de morgan · 11-27-2012, 05:25 PM

Try to set the attributes widows and orphans to 0 in css. It has worked for me.

vampiregrave · 11-27-2012, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

Try to set the attributes widows and orphans to 0 in css. It has worked for me.

Already did. No effect unfortunately. Either it doesn't work or kobo's software forces some default value.

Terisa de morgan · 11-27-2012, 05:46 PM

Sorry about it. I've modified .calibre in stylesheet.css to include them and it has worked.

vampiregrave · 11-28-2012, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

Sorry about it. I've modified .calibre in stylesheet.css to include them and it has worked.

Thanks for the help anyway. I'm editing the stylesheet with SIGIL.
I noticed that reducing font size fixes most breaks (but makes it almost impossible to read comfortably).

Toxaris · 11-28-2012, 05:52 AM

Perhaps the kobo ignores the orphans an widows settings.

Jellby · 11-28-2012, 05:53 AM

That's probably related to the limited memory and processing power of reading devices (and Adobe-based software trying to make sure it works in smaller ones), and I don't think there's a way to properly fix it. You'd have to live with that and try to get the device and software developers to create better-behaved readers.

vampiregrave · 11-28-2012, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellby

That's probably related to the limited memory and processing power of reading devices (and Adobe-based software trying to make sure it works in smaller ones), and I don't think there's a way to properly fix it. You'd have to live with that and try to get the device and software developers to create better-behaved readers.

Just noticed this issue is listed in the "Know Bugs in ADE" sticky. Guess i'm out of luck then. I'll probably post about this in the Kobo section.

Terisa de morgan · 11-28-2012, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxaris

Perhaps the kobo ignores the orphans an widows settings.

No, it doesn't, neither Mini nor Glo. I've tested at Mini and I girl at other forum has tested it at Glo. It works. She has done from the calibre GUI.

Arios · 01-31-2013, 08:02 PM

Hello everyone,

Just a quick follow-up.

I was on the verge to create a new post, but I found this one. As it partially solves my "problem" I reactivated it today.

Indeed, the ePub I am trying to work with (Les chants de Maldoror, I. Ducasse aka Lautréamont), has some paragraphs up to 5 pages (8.5x11 doc file)! And I want it to be readable on my eReader.

First. The solution proposed by Terisa de morgan (widows and orphans to 0 in css) works! even with very long paragraphs. So many thanks to you Terisa because I was (desperately

) seeking a solution and had really no clue.

This is curious because as Jellby, I believed that the problem was just a side effect to the limitations of eReaders on the market (lack of power, lack of memory: seem true for the Kobo Touch however).

Now, it works but not equally with the Kobo Touch and the Sony PRS-T1 I had on hand for testing.

With the Sony, the text wraps almost perfectly with all the long paragraphs, showing no memory or flow problems.

With the KT, things are not very good as several pages are cut erratically.

Trade off in both cases? Orphans and widows of course!

The text I'm talking about is certainly an exception, because the majority of authors do not create paragraphs nearly as long as chapters!

An interesting thing, perhaps, would be to test with other machines than the Sony and the Kobo Touch.

If you have any comments, it's would be appreciate.

davidfor · 02-01-2013, 12:23 AM

The Kobo devices do have a bug with long paragraphs. Whether it is the Kobo specific or ADE, I don't know. But, as the Sony seems OK, it might just be Kobo.

What I see is that if the a paragraph has more text than a screen, the start of the paragraph will be moved to the top of the next screen. It was discussed in the Kobo forum late last year, but someone said it had been in all firmware versions. I played with it a little bit to see the limits, but I didn't try a paragraph as long as what you have, so I don't know what happens after several screens of text.

JSWolf · 02-01-2013, 07:26 PM

It's not ADE. Long paragraphs work fine on my 650, Bluefire, ADE 1.7.7 & 2.0 for Windows.

It is yet another Kobo bug. I think Kobo needs to fire their programming staff and get new staff that can actually do the job.

vampiregrave · 02-06-2013, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidfor

The Kobo devices do have a bug with long paragraphs. Whether it is the Kobo specific or ADE, I don't know. But, as the Sony seems OK, it might just be Kobo.

What I see is that if the a paragraph has more text than a screen, the start of the paragraph will be moved to the top of the next screen. It was discussed in the Kobo forum late last year, but someone said it had been in all firmware versions. I played with it a little bit to see the limits, but I didn't try a paragraph as long as what you have, so I don't know what happens after several screens of text.

It's incredibly annoying and it seems to depend on font size; i tried the lowest sizes (pretty much ilegible) and it solved some of the random page breaks. Not exactly a fix though...

davidfor · 02-06-2013, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vampiregrave

It's incredibly annoying and it seems to depend on font size; i tried the lowest sizes (pretty much ilegible) and it solved some of the random page breaks. Not exactly a fix though...

The font size does affect it. As I stated, a long paragraphs starts on the next screen if the paragraph would take more than a screen. This is more than a screen at the current font settings.

Arios · 02-06-2013, 11:48 AM

First of all, thank you davidfor and JSWolf for your previous answers.

@ davidfor, I didn't know that bug in the Kobo: too bad especially if it's an old one!

@ JSWolf. I'm not far from sharing your opinion about the Kobo devs. But they continue to "try" and it's a good thing because the KT is not so bad.

@ vampiregrave. Regarding your long paragraphs: have you a lot of them? How long are they?

In my case (Les chants de Maldoror) long paragraphs are the norm. This is why it is not a good example. In fact, this is an exception.

Let try to think of solutions.

1. Break very long paragraphs, and only them. This "solution" is, however, contrary to the intention of the author. Not so good!

2. Create a division <div> for long paragraphs with the option "widows and orphans to 0 in css". I have not tested it yet, but that could just help the eReader.

3. Buy a Sony

(just kidding).

If anyone has any other ideas it would be cool to share it.

Have a really nice day everyone!

11-27-2012, 05:06 PM	#1
vampiregrave Member Posts: 18 Karma: 57612 Join Date: Nov 2012 Device: Kobo Glo	Arbitrary breaks in long paragraphs I've been struggling with a specific article with very long paragraphs. When i preview the epub file using calibre and ADE there's absolutely no problem, but when i test it in my Kobo Glo i find several arbitrary breaks, sometimes in the middle of the screen. As far as i can tell the problem resides in the lenght of the paragraphs. Is there any way to fix the behavior?

11-28-2012, 05:53 AM	#7
Jellby frumious Bandersnatch Posts: 7,515 Karma: 18512745 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spaniard in Sweden Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura	That's probably related to the limited memory and processing power of reading devices (and Adobe-based software trying to make sure it works in smaller ones), and I don't think there's a way to properly fix it. You'd have to live with that and try to get the device and software developers to create better-behaved readers. Last edited by Jellby; 11-28-2012 at 05:56 AM.

02-06-2013, 11:48 AM	#15
Arios A curiosus lector! Posts: 463 Karma: 2015140 Join Date: Jun 2012 Device: Sony PRS-T1, Kobo Touch	First of all, thank you davidfor and JSWolf for your previous answers. @ davidfor, I didn't know that bug in the Kobo: too bad especially if it's an old one! @ JSWolf. I'm not far from sharing your opinion about the Kobo devs. But they continue to "try" and it's a good thing because the KT is not so bad. @ vampiregrave. Regarding your long paragraphs: have you a lot of them? How long are they? In my case (Les chants de Maldoror) long paragraphs are the norm. This is why it is not a good example. In fact, this is an exception. Let try to think of solutions. 1. Break very long paragraphs, and only them. This "solution" is, however, contrary to the intention of the author. Not so good! 2. Create a division <div> for long paragraphs with the option "widows and orphans to 0 in css". I have not tested it yet, but that could just help the eReader. 3. Buy a Sony (just kidding). If anyone has any other ideas it would be cool to share it. Have a really nice day everyone! Last edited by Arios; 02-06-2013 at 02:03 PM.

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11-27-2012, 05:25 PM	#2
Terisa de morgan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,227 Karma: 11768331 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Device: Kobo Clara/Aura One/Forma,XiaoMI 5, iPad, Huawei MediaPad, YotaPhone 2	Try to set the attributes widows and orphans to 0 in css. It has worked for me.

11-27-2012, 05:46 PM	#4
Terisa de morgan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,227 Karma: 11768331 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Device: Kobo Clara/Aura One/Forma,XiaoMI 5, iPad, Huawei MediaPad, YotaPhone 2	Sorry about it. I've modified .calibre in stylesheet.css to include them and it has worked.

11-28-2012, 05:52 AM	#6
Toxaris Wizard Posts: 4,520 Karma: 121692313 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Heemskerk, NL Device: PRS-T1, Kobo Touch, Kobo Aura	Perhaps the kobo ignores the orphans an widows settings.

01-31-2013, 08:02 PM	#10
Arios A curiosus lector! Posts: 463 Karma: 2015140 Join Date: Jun 2012 Device: Sony PRS-T1, Kobo Touch	Hello everyone, Just a quick follow-up. I was on the verge to create a new post, but I found this one. As it partially solves my "problem" I reactivated it today. Indeed, the ePub I am trying to work with (Les chants de Maldoror, I. Ducasse aka Lautréamont), has some paragraphs up to 5 pages (8.5x11 doc file)! And I want it to be readable on my eReader. First. The solution proposed by Terisa de morgan (widows and orphans to 0 in css) works! even with very long paragraphs. So many thanks to you Terisa because I was (desperately ) seeking a solution and had really no clue. This is curious because as Jellby, I believed that the problem was just a side effect to the limitations of eReaders on the market (lack of power, lack of memory: seem true for the Kobo Touch however). Now, it works but not equally with the Kobo Touch and the Sony PRS-T1 I had on hand for testing. With the Sony, the text wraps almost perfectly with all the long paragraphs, showing no memory or flow problems. With the KT, things are not very good as several pages are cut erratically. Trade off in both cases? Orphans and widows of course! The text I'm talking about is certainly an exception, because the majority of authors do not create paragraphs nearly as long as chapters! An interesting thing, perhaps, would be to test with other machines than the Sony and the Kobo Touch. If you have any comments, it's would be appreciate.

02-01-2013, 12:23 AM	#11
davidfor Grand Sorcerer Posts: 24,907 Karma: 47303748 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sydney, Australia Device: Kobo:Touch,Glo, AuraH2O, GloHD,AuraONE, ClaraHD, Libra H2O; tolinoepos	The Kobo devices do have a bug with long paragraphs. Whether it is the Kobo specific or ADE, I don't know. But, as the Sony seems OK, it might just be Kobo. What I see is that if the a paragraph has more text than a screen, the start of the paragraph will be moved to the top of the next screen. It was discussed in the Kobo forum late last year, but someone said it had been in all firmware versions. I played with it a little bit to see the limits, but I didn't try a paragraph as long as what you have, so I don't know what happens after several screens of text.

02-01-2013, 07:26 PM	#12
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,858 Karma: 128597114 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	It's not ADE. Long paragraphs work fine on my 650, Bluefire, ADE 1.7.7 & 2.0 for Windows. It is yet another Kobo bug. I think Kobo needs to fire their programming staff and get new staff that can actually do the job.