Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Readers > Which one should I buy?

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-19-2024, 07:02 PM   #1
Shohreh
Zealot
Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.
 
Posts: 148
Karma: 192898
Join Date: Jan 2016
Device: none
Question [SOLVED] 6" solid screen, good support for EPUB + PDF?

Hello,

My first e-reader was a Pocketbook TEA Touch Lux 3… whose screen broke twice while travelling.

Then, I got a Bookeen Saga sold as OEM, and it's been working fine for some years now. But its support for PDF isn't very good, and converting PDF to EPUB is a pain.

Unless Kindle can read (free or DRM-removed) EPUB fine, I'd rather stay away from that brand.

So I guess that leaves Kobo as a major name unless there are others I should know about.

What model would you recommend for a 6" heavy-duty screen, and good support for EPUB and PDF?

Thank you.
---
Edit: Alternatively, a reader where KOReader can be easily installed, since it's supposed to handle PDFs better than most stock applications.

Before I buy a new e-reader, can experienced users confirm 1) KOReader is significantly better at displaying PDFs than stock apps and 2) it installs flawlessly on a Kobo (provided there's no better price/performance alternative)?

Last edited by Shohreh; 01-20-2024 at 06:32 PM.
Shohreh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2024, 07:14 AM   #2
Quoth
the rook, bossing Never.
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,145
Karma: 85874891
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper11
No 6″ is good for PDF, unless it extends like the communicators in 'Earth: Final Conflict'.

I did used to use KO Reader on the 10.3″ Kobo Elipsa, then I got an 8″ Kobo Sage and also Kobo upgraded to allow margin crop and then upgraded to 'save per pdf'. So I never installed KOReader on the Sage and removed it on the Elipsa. I do have it on my 7.8″ Android eink Mars, but only for epubs as the native PDF reader is as good as KOReader for PDFs and that on the reMarkable (which is a PDF tablet, not a real reader).

The Kobo Libra 2 is 7″ but the Kobo Sage 8″ (both 300 dpi) is much better for PDFs.

Kindle doesn't do epub at all. The 'Send to Kindle' of epub uses Amazon's mysterious conversion ( poorer than Calibre to azw3) and gives Amazon a copy.

Trival to install KOReader Kobo, but you might not need it. Also KOReader doesn't yet have a metadata library interface, just awkward file browser or search calibre metadata. I find it quicker to brighten scan PDFs or fix epub formatting than fiddle with KOReader settings.

All the current Kobos use the same firmware, except the Sage and Elipsa have notebooks and a Pen option. The Pen sort of works in the Libra 2 sketchpad that exports svg files.
There are 6″ Kobo also. The Nia is least good as it's not 300 dpi. The 10.3″ Elipsa / Elipsa 2 actually has less pixels than 8″ Sage, so the Sage is better for PDFs unless you need 'bigger' for eyesight.

I find any 9.7″+ size model of any kind too heavy for prolonged reading (The 9.7″ models are poor for PDF being only 150 dpi).
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 01-20-2024, 07:59 AM   #3
Shohreh
Zealot
Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.
 
Posts: 148
Karma: 192898
Join Date: Jan 2016
Device: none
Thanks for the tips. Since I use it while cyclotouring, it needs to be as small as possible.

Quote:
I find it quicker to brighten scan PDFs or fix epub formatting than fiddle with KOReader settings.
How do you proceed to convert and fix PDF to EPUB? Can it be automated with just a few manual steps?
Shohreh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2024, 09:33 AM   #4
Quoth
the rook, bossing Never.
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,145
Karma: 85874891
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shohreh View Post
Thanks for the tips. Since I use it while cyclotouring, it needs to be as small as possible.
The 8″ Kobo Sage does fit in my coat pocket

I do have 4.7″ epub ereader. Same model is currently sold in various brands. The 5″ Sony PRS-350 is a very nice ereader, but only for epub and it's very old now for a gadget. Also only 600 x 800.

Current Kobo (Total Gbyte size)
10.3″ Elipsa 2 1404 x 1872 @227 dpi (32) Only better than Sage if you need same content larger. Less pixels than Sage!
8″ Sage 1440 x 1920 @300 dpi (32)
7" Libra 2 1680 × 1264 @300 dpi (32, Libra original was 8*)
6″ Clara HD 1072 x 1448 @300 dpi (8 *)
6″ Nia 768 x1024 @212 dpi (8 *)
(* Sometimes devices are shipped with larger storage.)
I do have 167 dpi and 300 dpi 6″ Kindle Models. The 6″ PW3 I have and the Oasis (gen2) I gave away are both pretty useless for PDFs. The 9.7″ Kindle DXG is useless because only 150 dpi and too slow for PDFs. Probably my 167 dpi KK3 can do PDFs but it would be pointless, so never tried.



LCD Android Tablets

As these are actually colour and at least 254 grey levels, black and white the effective resolution is higher than same eink as they are 14 greys, black and white (even if colour models which are all lower resolution)
TCL Nxtpaper 11 (10.9″) 2000 x1000 @223 dpi 8000 mAH cell. Optimised for reading and notes with Pen.
Lenovo Yoga 10 (10.1″) 1280 x 800 @149 dpi 10000 mAH cell. Typical shiny.
I looked at iPads in their showroom, in person, but they are far too shiny and far too expensive. Ditto high-end MS Surface or Samsung with Pen.


* * *

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shohreh View Post
How do you proceed to convert and fix PDF to EPUB? Can it be automated with just a few manual steps?
Short answer
Really you don't! View PDFs as PDFs.

Long Answer
Either use a big enough screen, or if it's PD or you own copyright then you might try copy/paste/edit/format in LO Writer or MS Word, or if it's a scan, then do OCR if it hasn't one, or extract if it has. Then cycle proof/edit and then epub.
It's usually a lot of work because PDF is an end result for preview for paper print or paper print. I did it once for personal use with a commercial PDF that I also bought on paper as it was a reference work. Never again.

I'd very rarely 'convert' a PDF. Because of how PDFs work even one that's not a scan needs a load of manual editing if copy/pasted or extracted as text.

I have a few hundred old books as PDF scans. Some have later been republished as ebooks and I've either bought or downloaded the PD (e.g. gutenberg.org). I'd read them on a big enough screen.

I have loads of manuals & instruction booklets as PDF. Most work on 8″ and many even on 7″. Almost none are very usable on 6″. Remember the area is proportional to the diagonal squared if the aspect ratio of screen is unchanged.
I also have thousands of service manuals and datasheets and old magazines (most multi-column) and these are only easily used on my desktop screen. The Sage, Elipsa and Android LCD Tablet are not really good enough. So I'm upgrading my Android LCD tablet from a 10.1″ to a 10.9″ model that's 223 dpi instead of 149 dpi and matte screen for mono PDFs and colour documents. Both Android tablets take SD cards up to maybe 1000 G Byte. I have a 256G card. Storage is an issue with Letter/A4/Magazine size PDFs and worse if colour.

Last edited by Quoth; 01-20-2024 at 10:03 AM. Reason: typos & resolutions
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2024, 10:02 AM   #5
Shohreh
Zealot
Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.
 
Posts: 148
Karma: 192898
Join Date: Jan 2016
Device: none
So… use an 8" Kobo Sage and rely on its stock PDF reader.

I'll find a store that sells Kobo to check how big it is compared to my Bookeen.
Shohreh is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 01-20-2024, 10:20 AM   #6
Quoth
the rook, bossing Never.
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,145
Karma: 85874891
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper11
It's waterproof (rain anyway, salt water or solvents might be an issue).
W x H x D is 160 x 180 x 6 mm, but side with buttons rises to about 8.5mm.
I use mine without a sleep cover. The other four people in the family with Sage models use a 3rd party sleep cover. A generic power bank is far better and cheaper than the official power cover.

Some complain about about battery life. It's certainly less than many 6″ ereaders, but fine, especially if front-light, Wi-Fi and BT are off.

Argos was the only local store that had them here and are now gone (1 purchase). Four were variously bought on Amazon or direct from Kobo.

If the Sage is too big, then get a Libra 2 or Clara HD and give up PDFs!

It's is trivial to install or un-install KOReader or patches on most Kobos as no Jailbreak is needed. I don't feel the need for either. Read about 26 ebooks since 25th December 2023 to 19th January 2024. Usually charges from PC while I'm fiddling with Calibre
Calibre lets you set title, author, collection, series and subtitle for metadata library browser in 'My Books' on Kobo Models.
The configuration file can be user edited and SideloadMode=true turns off marketing.
Calibre also manages reading status & position, highlights, annotations, bookmarks for Kobo Models.

Last edited by Quoth; 01-20-2024 at 10:27 AM.
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2024, 11:16 AM   #7
DNSB
Bibliophagist
DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DNSB's Avatar
 
Posts: 35,340
Karma: 145435140
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Device: Kobo Sage, Forma, Clara HD, Lenovo M8 FHD, Paperwhite 4, Tolino epos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shohreh View Post
How do you proceed to convert and fix PDF to EPUB? Can it be automated with just a few manual steps?
PDF is probably the worst format to convert to any other format. Generally, it requires a proofreading cycle comparing the original PDF to the ePub. And then you run into the PDFs where what you are viewing is a scanned image of the original page with an OCRed text layer for search purposes. That text layer is generally of abysmal quality.
DNSB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2024, 12:39 PM   #8
Shohreh
Zealot
Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.
 
Posts: 148
Karma: 192898
Join Date: Jan 2016
Device: none
The store had five different models. Forgot the name of the 10" where you can write (Elipsa ?).

I find the Sage too big, while the Nia and Clara 2E are smaller and the Libra 2 is about the same.

Like I said in the OP, the whole point of getting a new e-reader is precisely to read PDFs better than on the Bookeen Saga, or I wouldn't bother.

Why does screen size matter when viewing PDFs ("No 6″ is good for PDF, unless it extends like the communicators in 'Earth: Final Conflict'.")?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Kobo.ereaders.png
Views:	67
Size:	563.3 KB
ID:	205918  

Last edited by Shohreh; 01-20-2024 at 01:12 PM.
Shohreh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2024, 01:17 PM   #9
Sirtel
Grand Sorcerer
Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Sirtel's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,112
Karma: 224756896
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Estonia
Device: Kobo Sage & Libra 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shohreh View Post
Why does screen size matter when viewing PDFs ("No 6″ is good for PDF, unless it extends like the communicators in 'Earth: Final Conflict'.")?
Because PDF is not a reflowable format. You can't increase font size; you can only zoom in on a part of the page, if that. The smaller the screen, the less of a page you see, or the tinier the content is.
Sirtel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2024, 01:21 PM   #10
Shohreh
Zealot
Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.
 
Posts: 148
Karma: 192898
Join Date: Jan 2016
Device: none
Good to know, thx
Shohreh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2024, 03:17 PM   #11
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 73,931
Karma: 128903250
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
The answer is there is no such eInk device at 6" that is good for both ePub and PDF.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2024, 03:37 PM   #12
Quoth
the rook, bossing Never.
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,145
Karma: 85874891
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper11
Sage W x H x D is 160 x 180 x 6 mm, but side with buttons rises to about 8.5mm.
Libra 2 W x H about 144 x 162 mm, so smaller.

I don't have any Kobo 6″ model here.

KOReader, or any any other program, will not help with most PDFs on a 6″ screen any more than the native reader.

A proper ebook dynamically uses the actual screen size (based on pixels) as the page size when you open it. The user can change the font size, or even face, line spacing, margins etc (unless the ebook designer messed up).

PDFs, Fixed Layout or other Print Replica use a page size decided by the designer or publisher. The user can never change the font size, or face, line spacing, margins etc. The PDF can be shrunk to fit, in which case the text may be unreadable on 6″, or 'actual size' in which case you only see part of the page unless your screen size/resolution is as big as the design page. Hence sometimes even 8″ or 10″ isn't big enough if the PDF is A4 page and 6 point size fancy serif text.

If you go for 6″ then only a few PDFs will be readable in any easy fashion.

The SF TV series 'Earth: Final Conflict' the edge of the screen could be pulled out to have a screen almost 3 times bigger.

Philips did a protoype phone that rolled up. Later Sony showed a prototype that could roll up.
There are a couple of OLED phones that unfold to x2 size, but they are madly expensive and have hinge issues.
So for now if you want PDFs, you get a bigger screen, or spend a day or three proofing OCR or other copy/pasted PDF and editing and making an epub.

Even if you get a bigger screen it won't do all PDFs, just many.
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2024, 03:40 PM   #13
Quoth
the rook, bossing Never.
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,145
Karma: 85874891
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper11
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
The answer is there is no such eInk device at 6" that is good for both ePub and PDF.
No-one here with any experience is going to disagree. Even if it only did PDFs it would still be nearly useless.

Unless someone did a 1200 dpi 6″ ereader and supplied jeweller's type glasses / magnifying glass with it.
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2024, 04:57 PM   #14
Aleron Ives
Wizard
Aleron Ives ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Aleron Ives ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Aleron Ives ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Aleron Ives ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Aleron Ives ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Aleron Ives ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Aleron Ives ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Aleron Ives ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Aleron Ives ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Aleron Ives ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Aleron Ives ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,014
Karma: 11500112
Join Date: Sep 2022
Device: Kobo Libra 2
You might consider buying the Boox Poke 5. It's 6", but since it's an Android tablet, you get extensive formatting options. You can turn the reader on its side to read in landscape mode to give yourself more screen real estate, as one example (at the expense of only viewing half a page at a time).
Aleron Ives is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2024, 06:28 PM   #15
Shohreh
Zealot
Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Shohreh can program the VCR without an owner's manual.
 
Posts: 148
Karma: 192898
Join Date: Jan 2016
Device: none
Thanks everyone for the infos.
Shohreh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A good pdf to epub, or a good way to read a pdf on e-reader meemai Conversion 6 11-02-2015 03:09 PM
How good is PDF support on Kindle? jian1 Amazon Kindle 5 09-05-2011 03:51 PM
Which one to buy? for memo, To-do lists, good pdf support Prash Which one should I buy? 1 09-03-2010 04:30 PM
ebook reader with large screen and good pdf support lvicini Which one should I buy? 4 03-07-2010 09:47 AM
Brief explanation how to create good Thai PDF for 6" screen bthoven PDF 0 02-11-2010 04:50 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:59 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.