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Old 10-19-2023, 04:33 PM   #31
LarryNYC
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I'm excited about the Vision Pro and cannot wait to own one.

Most apps will run in 2D windows without any modification.

Apple says:

"visionOS runs compatible iPad and iPhone apps to provide continuous access to existing content right away. visionOS supports most of the same technologies as iOS, so many apps built to run on iPad or iPhone can run unmodified on visionOS devices. When a compatible app runs in visionOS, it retains the same appearance it had in iPadOS or iOS, and its content appears in a window in the person’s surroundings."

from: https://developer.apple.com/document...-with-visionos

I am looking forward to completely immersing myself in reading a novel by using the Kindle app.

Apple has decided that the user opts into the full screen app mode and that the default is multiple apps running. I think that is the right approach.

Besides reading, I plan on also using the device for work.

The specs on the device are impressive. Each eye is basically looking at a 4K display.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/5/23...dset-demo-ever

For those who say I should buy a bunch of televisions, I don't bother watching the one I own. As for buying a MacBook Pro instead, I already have one.


I'll be able to capture 3D videos using my iPhone 15. It is a modern version of a stereoscope from the 1800s.

This device will open up a whole new world. Bring it on.

Last edited by LarryNYC; 10-19-2023 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 10-22-2023, 01:19 PM   #32
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I am looking forward to completely immersing myself in reading a novel by using the Kindle app.
You do you, but I much rather hold my ebook reader than having heavy goggles pull my head down and stress my neck.

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Old 10-22-2023, 04:33 PM   #33
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I'm incredibly skeptical about how well this will work and the cost and all that jazz.

If there's a device like this that costs closer to $500 and where the ergonomics actually work for like everyone that works with a random Linux install, maybe.

But at $3500 or whatever with questionable ergonomics on a device that requires an expensive fruity computer, certainly not yet.
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Old 10-23-2023, 09:58 AM   #34
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I'm incredibly skeptical about how well this will work and the cost and all that jazz.

If there's a device like this that costs closer to $500 and where the ergonomics actually work for like everyone that works with a random Linux install, maybe.

But at $3500 or whatever with questionable ergonomics on a device that requires an expensive fruity computer, certainly not yet.
The Vision Pro does not require a computer. It is a standalone computer powered by Apple's M2 chip, the same chip that powers some of their laptops.

It has a second chip to handle all of the cameras that track eye and hand movement so you can manipulate the interface by moving your fingers.

It is an amazing accomplishment. First generation products are always more expensive then later generation products.

Life is short. I'll be using it as soon as I can get it.

Somebody did a 3D interface where you see scenes from War and Peace projected around the page but I would find that too distracting. My focus is on the text and I want to be able to read as quickly as possible.

If it can turn a page with my eye movements, I will be ecstatic.

I have a Kindle Scribe, and it is good, but balancing it on a pillow to read in bed is not that much fun. I hope that the goggles and the room will disappear when I read so that I can become one with the book. I want time to stop when I am reading.

I will report my findings.

As for "you do you", that is a tautology. Who else could I do?

Last edited by LarryNYC; 10-23-2023 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 02-06-2024, 04:47 PM   #35
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I'm a few days in with my Vision Pro. For the first few days, it was not at all clear to me what I would use it for, and I thought for sure I was going to send it back.

What changed is that I finally got around to connecting it to my MacBook 13" Air. Yes, you only get one 4K-ish display, but you can make appear as large as the largest TV screen, it is crisp, you can see every detail and adjust the 'distance' instantly, and mix it with other windows hosted on the AVP itself. Already it is earning its keep as an ultra portable 4K display (which it also worked with iPad Pro this way, at least the ones that support 4K external displays). There's a lot of synergy.

And no, there is nothing for $500 that does this.

The immersive video is amazing but there's only so much appetite I have for it, and the supply currently is scarce (have yet to try to shoot my own).

I tried watching Avatar the Way of Water in 3D, but I didn't like it in 2D and if anything it was worse.

On the native app side, there's enough to get going with, but no Kindle app yet, and the Apple apps like Safari, News+ and Books lack Dark theme (which I use whenever I can on non-eInk screens). I wanted to use forScore (for displaying sheet music) but it's not available. I think I can use PDF Expert, which is.

And reading books is pretty cool.

I haven't checked out all of the 'environments' but currently using Mojave Desert. Gorgeous and relaxing.

I used it for about 4 hours straight this morning. No eye strain or neck fatigue from the weight. I think it is much better on eyes than typical computer screen because your eyes are not locked on to something 20" away, focus adjusts as you look at different things in there.

The prescription lens inserts work well and stay cleaner than my trifocals so it's another benefit over usual computer display. However I need to figure out how to cover them when AVP is not in use to keep dust out. Easy enough to pop them out and clean them, and the 'inner' lenses should not need cleaning often because they're always covered by the prescription lenses.

Last edited by tomsem; 02-06-2024 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 02-07-2024, 11:35 AM   #36
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Going only from my experience with a Meta Quest 2 - I think reading in a virtual environment on the vision pro would be amazing.

Would I buy one JUST to read? No. If I had one, would I likely enjoy that level of immersion? For sure. Just like I enjoy reading a book outside by the lake or anywhere pretty.

I really enjoy the Quest 2. My #1 use is the workout app, Supernatural. It's key feature to me is that it transports me to amazingly beautiful places. Makes working out so much more enjoyable.

Seeing a picture or a video of VR content does not help you understand how truly immersive the actual experience is.
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Old 02-07-2024, 12:11 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryNYC View Post
The Vision Pro does not require a computer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomsem View Post
I'm a few days in with my Vision Pro. For the first few days, it was not at all clear to me what I would use it for, and I thought for sure I was going to send it back.

What changed is that I finally got around to connecting it to my MacBook 13" Air...
lots of early impressions and reactions like this to the initial hopes and dreams

But reading is what we all care about here so:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryNYC View Post
Somebody did a 3D interface where you see scenes from War and Peace projected around the page but I would find that too distracting. My focus is on the text and I want to be able to read as quickly as possible.

If it can turn a page with my eye movements, I will be ecstatic.

I have a Kindle Scribe, and it is good, but balancing it on a pillow to read in bed is not that much fun. I hope that the goggles and the room will disappear when I read so that I can become one with the book. I want time to stop when I am reading.

I will report my findings.

As for "you do you", that is a tautology. Who else could I do?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomsem View Post
And no, there is nothing for $500 that does this.

On the native app side, there's enough to get going with, but no Kindle app yet, and the Apple apps like Safari, News+ and Books lack Dark theme (which I use whenever I can on non-eInk screens). I wanted to use forScore (for displaying sheet music) but it's not available. I think I can use PDF Expert, which is.

And reading books is pretty cool.

I haven't checked out all of the 'environments' but currently using Mojave Desert. Gorgeous and relaxing.

I used it for about 4 hours straight this morning. No eye strain or neck fatigue from the weight. I think it is much better on eyes than typical computer screen because your eyes are not locked on to something 20" away, focus adjusts as you look at different things in there.
Mark Gurman mentioned early on that Apple was working on a native Books app for the Vision Pro so I was very disappointed that Apple doesn't seem to have released anything in time for launch. Not even a Beach immersive background so you can simulate lounging and reading?

Anyway the device/OS fundamentally doesn't seem complementary to reading books. Yes, it's the first headset with a high enough resolution to match retina eink and oled ereaders and tablets. But it's heavy, battery life is quite poor, FoV isn't great, and it's not designed to be used while moving. At the end of the day, the Vision Pro is a VR headset and I don't think it'll be as good as AR Glasses and regular ereaders for standard books.

On the other hand, I'm very eager to get my hands on one for reading comic books

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Old 02-07-2024, 03:32 PM   #38
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Mark Gurman mentioned early on that Apple was working on a native Books app for the Vision Pro so I was very disappointed that Apple doesn't seem to have released anything in time for launch. Not even a Beach immersive background so you can simulate lounging and reading?
Do you really want a beach scene with waves and such? I would not. I really don't want the app to be immersive, I can always move things out of the way to make it so.

Mojave Desert is perfect for me. There's also Yosemite (winter scene) and some up in the clouds thing in Hawaii, and White Sands NM. There will be others.

Quote:
Anyway the device/OS fundamentally doesn't seem complementary to reading books. Yes, it's the first headset with a high enough resolution to match retina eink and oled ereaders and tablets. But it's heavy, battery life is quite poor, FoV isn't great, and it's not designed to be used while moving. At the end of the day, the Vision Pro is a VR headset and I don't think it'll be as good as AR Glasses and regular ereaders for standard books.
Battery life is not that much of a concern. If you are reading you are not moving around, it is easy to plug into power or connect a power bank to extend time. Who needs FoV for reading?

I do not find it heavy. It's heavier than others (which I have not tried) but I do not find it uncomfortably so. My head is a lot heavier that it is. And my stiff neck has largely cleared up since I started using it. Good exercise apparently!

I walk around with it on, it is not an issue unless there is no light (they could have software turn on the front display to full white so you could see where you're going).

I've just been using read.amazon.com to read in Safari. I can't size Safari window as narrow as I'd like (I'm not a fan of 2 column) so I hope Amazon releases a VisionOS compatible Kindle app soon. At one point the (Mac) App Store said it supported VisionOS (with beta version of Kindle app).

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Old 02-07-2024, 03:37 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by tomsem View Post
I'm a few days in with my Vision Pro. For the first few days, it was not at all clear to me what I would use it for, and I thought for sure I was going to send it back.

What changed is that I finally got around to connecting it to my MacBook 13" Air. Yes, you only get one 4K-ish display, but you can make appear as large as the largest TV screen, it is crisp, you can see every detail and adjust the 'distance' instantly, and mix it with other windows hosted on the AVP itself. Already it is earning its keep as an ultra portable 4K display (which it also worked with iPad Pro this way, at least the ones that support 4K external displays). There's a lot of synergy.

And no, there is nothing for $500 that does this.

The immersive video is amazing but there's only so much appetite I have for it, and the supply currently is scarce (have yet to try to shoot my own).

I tried watching Avatar the Way of Water in 3D, but I didn't like it in 2D and if anything it was worse.

On the native app side, there's enough to get going with, but no Kindle app yet, and the Apple apps like Safari, News+ and Books lack Dark theme (which I use whenever I can on non-eInk screens). I wanted to use forScore (for displaying sheet music) but it's not available. I think I can use PDF Expert, which is.

And reading books is pretty cool.

I haven't checked out all of the 'environments' but currently using Mojave Desert. Gorgeous and relaxing.

I used it for about 4 hours straight this morning. No eye strain or neck fatigue from the weight. I think it is much better on eyes than typical computer screen because your eyes are not locked on to something 20" away, focus adjusts as you look at different things in there.

The prescription lens inserts work well and stay cleaner than my trifocals so it's another benefit over usual computer display. However I need to figure out how to cover them when AVP is not in use to keep dust out. Easy enough to pop them out and clean them, and the 'inner' lenses should not need cleaning often because they're always covered by the prescription lenses.
How large can you make the display appear to be? Have you tried 4K/Dolby Vision programs from streaming services?
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Old 02-07-2024, 03:50 PM   #40
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How large can you make the display appear to be? Have you tried 4K/Dolby Vision programs from streaming services?
You can make it very large, more than filling the view if you want. You just stretch it out and pull push it to where you want it to appear.

Some video apps are for iPad, not optimized for Vision Pro. I haven't played with them enough to know how those are limited.

The Max app (I don't pay for 4K/Dolby ATM), at least for Dune, has a Throne Room environment for it that is 360 degree immersive, appears to be 60x60x60 feet or so with stone floors and walls, torches burning, stars coming through windows up in the 'stone' walls. It's like sitting in a strange movie theatre. Not sure what the point is but it's novel. Of course you can turn that off.

[I guess it is supposed to be the Throne Room of Game of Thrones - which I've only watched a few episodes of]. And it is an option for any Max content apparently.

AppleTV+ content is all 4K/Dolby, I think some Prime Video is, a lot of Disney+ is. Netflix and YouTube work in Safari which I have not tried yet.

Last edited by tomsem; 02-07-2024 at 05:19 PM.
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Old 02-08-2024, 08:55 AM   #41
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Do you really want a beach scene with waves and such? I would not. I really don't want the app to be immersive, I can always move things out of the way to make it so.

Mojave Desert is perfect for me. There's also Yosemite (winter scene) and some up in the clouds thing in Hawaii, and White Sands NM. There will be others.



Battery life is not that much of a concern. If you are reading you are not moving around, it is easy to plug into power or connect a power bank to extend time. Who needs FoV for reading?

I do not find it heavy. It's heavier than others (which I have not tried) but I do not find it uncomfortably so. My head is a lot heavier that it is. And my stiff neck has largely cleared up since I started using it. Good exercise apparently!

I walk around with it on, it is not an issue unless there is no light (they could have software turn on the front display to full white so you could see where you're going).

I've just been using read.amazon.com to read in Safari. I can't size Safari window as narrow as I'd like (I'm not a fan of 2 column) so I hope Amazon releases a VisionOS compatible Kindle app soon. At one point the (Mac) App Store said it supported VisionOS (with beta version of Kindle app).
...

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If you are reading you are not moving around
I'm a 'zealot' on this website called Mobileread. Of course I move around when I'm reading

thanks for your impressions. please share more when the visionOS compatible/native apps are released
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Old 02-09-2024, 03:05 PM   #42
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Actually Apple Books is just like the iOS version and does have Dark Theme (it is listed in 'Compatible apps'). So no special features for VisionOS. Speak Screen works as well but has some issues with scrolling mode (doesn't sync up the viewport). I wish it would let you open 2 or more books, like the macOS version does.

But News app is tweaked for VisionOS (probably to make some things larger to make eye tracking easier), and no Dark Theme. And I don't think there are any Safari plugins (dark theme) yet, as it is also tweaked for VisionOS.

I completed reading a book (probably about 200 pages total) in there, using Safari and read.amazon.com.

FWIW, Kobo is available as a compatible app but I will probably just use Books for future reading. Kindle web reader is not bad but had some issues navigating back to previous location: for some reason I could not select the 'back to page xx' buttons it put up after it jumped to a footnote.

Also watched The Marvels in 3D with Disney+ (my second viewing, the first being normal streaming on our big screen). I don't know why it bombed in the box office, to me it is up there with the best of the MU movies. Very well executed, funny and entertaining.

The Disney+ app has 4 Environments to choose from: Disney+ Theater, Marvel theme, Star Wars theme and another I cannot bring to mind. The Theatre is like one of those fancy theaters with the reclining seats and little tables to put food on. There is some murmuring until the movie starts up. But it turns out that I'm the only person in there! Would be more fun if you could SharePlay with a friend somehow and share real time commentary.

But even so, it was a vastly superior experience to the local movie theater, which is in great need of a remodel, and to 3D experiences I've had there. And better than our big screen except that I cannot watch with my wife.

Have yet to try any games optimized for VisionOS.

I'll probably install beta so I can use Feedback app to offer suggestions more directly.

Last edited by tomsem; 02-09-2024 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 02-16-2024, 04:13 AM   #43
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I certainly hope some reading apps are available on Day 1 that take advantage of it.

With the precise eye-tracking, some interesting possibilities are in play, and ability to change the virtual reading location (surface of Mars, Inside the Great Pyramid) would be fun.

And all this for only $3500 (plus lenses if you need 'em).
reading for long time that too very close to your eyes, it is no no situation IMO.
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Old 02-16-2024, 06:15 AM   #44
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$3,500 plus sales tax or VAT is an eye-watering price.
Might make your eyes water even if a present!
https://www.theregister.com/2024/02/...n_pro_returns/
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Old 02-25-2024, 03:21 PM   #45
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While the Apple Vision Pro headset does sound like it could offer a unique and immersive reading experience, I've actually found it to be one of the best Innovative Music Production Tools out there. The precise eye-tracking and the ability to immerse yourself in different virtual environments have opened up new ways for me to approach music production. It's not just about reading; this technology allows you to interact with music software in a way that feels more intuitive and engaging. For instance, being able to mix tracks or tweak synthesizer settings as if you're physically touching them in your chosen virtual space has made my music production process not only more efficient but also a lot more enjoyable. The investment might seem steep at first, but the benefits it brings to creativity and workflow in music production are truly worth it.

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