Kobo, why won't you sync my sideloaded books?

[TechniSol]

Kobo, why won't you sync my sideloaded books?

You make note of my sideloads in your database. You make note of my sideloads in collections and host the collections data on your servers. You track the last page I was on in a sideloaded book in your database on my device in order to open to the correct page again. Why will you not sync the last page read across my devices and in your Kobo for Android app?

The lack of this syncing seems contrary at best considering the level of access you have. Help a repeat customer reading on your devices and software across platforms out, please.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by TechniSol

Kobo, why won't you sync my sideloaded books?

You make note of my sideloads in your database. You make note of my sideloads in collections and host the collections data on your servers. You track the last page I was on in a sideloaded book in your database on my device in order to open to the correct page again. Why will you not sync the last page read across my devices and in your Kobo for Android app?

The lack of this syncing seems contrary at best considering the level of access you have. Help a repeat customer reading on your devices and software across platforms out, please.

Hmmm... you want Kobo to store your sideloaded book information on their servers? Consider the privacy implications for a Canadian company -- check an earlier discussion on this point.

Regards,
David

[PeterT]

I'm not at all sure that info for NON Kobo supplied kepubs in collections get synced to Kobo.

[TechniSol]

Well, the info is contained in the database on the device at least. The collections are synced to the servers irregardless of whether they are populated with sideloaded titles. I'll admit I can't speak to how much data regarding collections is synced, but all they need to do is transfer a page number and some sort of identifier between systems, there is no requirement that it be a book title or any other information. A hashing algorithm of some sort or some other unique identifier would be fine. I'm just asking for them to sync a page number...

If you switch devices between reads, and realize remembering page numbers may not be sufficient due to varying font and screen sizes you'll understand why I'm asking. OTOH, I wonder if those very differences between devices complicate matters, but they do it for their kepub titles.

Normally, it wouldn't be a problem, I'm the guy who closes a book and remembers the page number until opening it again, but depending on how many things I'm reading it gets confusing as multiples pile up.

[speakingtohe]

I don't want Kobo (or Microsoft or Apple or Amazon etc.) making any changes to my devices without my express permission. I know it is a battle long lost but I resent it. The arrogance etc.

I do know lots of people feel as you do and for one book at a time people I can see it as being useful. Probably Kobo will one day realize that giving those extra features not actually built into kepub files to epub users will benefit them in the long run.

And of course they are within their rights to only sync content purchased from them. A lot of people may buy Kobo books just so they can sync them.

I actually prefer to read different books on different devices and have little trouble picking up where I left off even on the seldom used Kobos, but that is just me.

Helen

[TechniSol]

DNSB,

No, I don't want them to store anything on their servers beyond a unique identifier that can be compared or generated by any of their software implementations and a page number if privacy is at risk, but they are already doing it somehow with titles sold by them. For that matter, if privacy is so darned important they'd better be storing the names of my collections in some encrypted or hashed form on their servers...

I feel it relatively unlikely that anyone knowing the page number of a book identified by a meaningless hashing tag on my ereading devices would lead to global thermonuclear war... unless you Canadians have learned something about Physics and Engineering that I somehow missed. ;-)

C'mon fellas, I'm asking for a relatively simple syncing of page numbers, it can't be that hard as a mechanism to do so for titles sold by them already exists... I realize they don't make money off my sideloaded titles, but it would be unbelievably petty to refuse to sync them for that reason alone.

[meeera]

If it's done at the user's request, I don't see how it can be a violation of privacy law. That should be solved just with a tickybox that defaults to off.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by TechniSol

DNSB,

No, I don't want them to store anything on their servers beyond a unique identifier that can be compared or generated by any of their software implementations and a page number if privacy is at risk, but they are already doing it somehow with titles sold by them. For that matter, if privacy is so darned important they'd better be storing the names of my collections in some encrypted or hashed form on their servers...

I feel it relatively unlikely that anyone knowing the page number of a book identified by a meaningless hashing tag on my ereading devices would lead to global thermonuclear war... unless you Canadians have learned something about Physics and Engineering that I somehow missed. ;-)

C'mon fellas, I'm asking for a relatively simple syncing of page numbers, it can't be that hard as a mechanism to do so for titles sold by them already exists... I realize they don't make money off my sideloaded titles, but it would be unbelievably petty to refuse to sync them for that reason alone.

Kind of like my fish market only cleaning those fish you buy from them (They will clean their own live fish for free) Business is business after all.

Helen

[TechniSol]

Speaking,

OTOH, if I had to buy their oven(my ereader) to cook their fish, I'd expect that I could use it to cook other fish to the same doneness and flavor. Surely, I'd not be allowed to only use lemon butter and dill on their fish and the oven timer and thermostat would work as expected with my fish.

I get your point, and other's regarding privacy, companies changing things or observing without permission, but I'm only asking for a page sync, no other exchange of information.

The problem comes in for me because I carry different devices on a daily basis depending on my schedule and occasionally find myself reading on a tablet to kill some time. I'd prefer doing all of my for pleasure reading on e-ink, but it's not always convenient to cart around multiple devices. I carry at minimum a cellphone, a tablet, paper notebook, company catalog, contracts, glucose meter, insulin, needles, supplies, etc. on a daily basis, sometimes the ereader is just one more bother than I can stand. It's not so bad in Winter other than my coat weighing a ton, but in Summer gets to be a bother as some things can't be left in a hot, or soon to be, car and others I must have with me anyway.

[robko]

Originally Posted by TechniSol

C'mon fellas, I'm asking for a relatively simple syncing of page numbers, it can't be that hard as a mechanism to do so for titles sold by them already exists... I realize they don't make money off my sideloaded titles, but it would be unbelievably petty to refuse to sync them for that reason alone.

This has been argued a few times before and basically comes back to Canadian privacy laws are pretty strict. They can do it with their own books because you purchased it from them so they have the right to know that you have it.
It might seem simple to just obscure the title, but then how do you sync it between devices? At some point you have to know that "AA23AA" = "book x" on both devices. If it can't match the title or isbn or something identifiable between the devices at least once they can't do it. Yes, I suppose you could allow the user to somehow match the books on the device itself, but then this isn't an easy option.
Not saying it wouldn't be a nice thing, just saying between laws and logistics it's probably not as easy as it first seems.

[TechniSol]

Robko,

Reread my posts. As I suggested, an reader based hashing algorithm could be employed so that the server would store only a hashed version of the eBook title or whatever identifier had been hashed. The opposite de-hashing algorithm on the reader would resolve to the correct database item so the page number could be transferred. Hopefully the same is already implemented for the Kobo books one buys as they have no right to monitor the progress, lack thereof, or infer additional information gleaned from my reading habits because they sold me a book -otherwise the local newsstand guy apparently has the right to peer over my shoulder as I ignore various sections of the newspaper.

If you think about it, much more can be inferred or deduced about you based on how often, or how much time you spend on certain passages of literature or how often you refer back to it than the fact that you purchased it at all.

[shalym]

I really don't understand why this is in violation of Canadian law for Kobo, but not for Amazon. Kobo is no longer a Canadian company any more than Amazon is--it may have started as a Canadian company, but it's now owned by Rakuten, which is NOT a Canadian company. The Kobo division of Rakuten may have it's main office in Canada, but the company is incorporated in Japan, not Canada, and I would think Japanese law would prevail.

Shari

[robko]

Originally Posted by TechniSol

Robko,

Reread my posts. As I suggested, an reader based hashing algorithm could be employed so that the server would store only a hashed version of the eBook title or whatever identifier had been hashed. The opposite de-hashing algorithm on the reader would resolve to the correct database item so the page number could be transferred.

Fair enough, but since you wouldn't be able to have a truly random hashing or you wouldn't be know which books were which on either end (i.e. it might not be plain text, but Kobo would be able to decode it on the server if they decided to because they know how it's hashed on other end). I don't disagree with your comments or thoughts, I'm just playing devils advocate that it might not be quite sa simple to do within the bounds of the law it would first seem.

Originally Posted by shalym

I really don't understand why this is in violation of Canadian law for Kobo, but not for Amazon. Kobo is no longer a Canadian company any more than Amazon is--it may have started as a Canadian company, but it's now owned by Rakuten, which is NOT a Canadian company. The Kobo division of Rakuten may have it's main office in Canada, but the company is incorporated in Japan, not Canada, and I would think Japanese law would prevail.
Shari

It doesn't matter whether it is a Canadian company or not, if they are operating within Canada they have to follow Canadian laws while operating within Canada. As an example of this, the Canadian Privacy commissioner has managed to get Facebook etc to change some of their policies because they didn't conform. As for Amazon, if I understand it correctly, in order for you to sync sideloaded content you have to upload it to their cloud. Once you do that, you've explicitly given them the knowledge of what you have so it wouldn't break laws. Yes, Kobo could in theory do this too, but that's a lot of server space (even though they are now a division of a large company). And yes, in theory it would be possible to have a check box to allow you to opt in or out of it transferring the data, but that probably would need to be on both devices and again would probably not be as simple as it might appear at first blush and could cause support headaches for what might be little gain on Kobo's part.
Heck, maybe Kobo just wants to force everyone to buy everything from them, I don't know . The above is just my random thoughts on possible reasons why they haven't done it.

[MacEachaidh]

Doesn't Kobo already know what we have on our devices? It seems unmistakeable to me that, every time I sync my Kobo, my recommendations are updated to reflect any new books I've sideloaded — either other books by the same author, or other non-fiction books on the same subject. These usually aren't recent releases or current top-sellers, so I can't believe it's a coincidence over and over again. How could Kobo do that without reading the books database to see what I have?

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

Doesn't Kobo already know what we have on our devices? It seems unmistakeable to me that, every time I sync my Kobo, my recommendations are updated to reflect any new books I've sideloaded — either other books by the same author, or other non-fiction books on the same subject. These usually aren't recent releases or current top-sellers, so I can't believe it's a coincidence over and over again. How could Kobo do that without reading the books database to see what I have?

They don't have to know as long as it is the device itself that looks up those recommendations. If they don't cache that info on the servers, and aren't pushing it to the device, then they never know what sideloaded books you have -- but your device does know.