Do some publishers have any idea?

Timboli · 03-26-2019, 08:13 AM

Or another way to re-phrase the title.

Do publishers who overcharge for ebooks, have a clue?

It doesn't seem they do to me, and they appear to be backing themselves into the niche corner. Ultimately time will tell of course.

I've been reading and collecting books for many decades now, and even before ebooks came into my life, I was way behind with my reading, and once I started collecting ebooks (legally) that multiplied a hundred-fold, perhaps more. I am at the point, where unless a miracle in science regarding longevity at least, occurs, I am not going to ever read all I have.

Because I have so many, and because I am so far behind, then when I want to purchase an ebook by one of the many authors I follow, if I don't like the price, I can just wait it out .... perhaps forever, because I am never short of something to read.

Now let's get something clear, I am happy to pay a fair price, always have been. I don't have to get something at a 'cheap as' bargain price. If such ever comes my way, of course I will grab it .... just like I am constantly snapping up great sounding Indie ebooks for free. But I like to support the authors I like and love.

I follow many authors, and I do so, because I like their writing. If I like an author, then I generally just buy their next book, never bothering with Reviews (especially as to me, they are some kind of spoiler regardless). When I will buy their book though, is always governed by the price.

For a few years now, I have preferred to read an ebook, and even though I have hundreds (perhaps thousands) of unread physical books, you will more often find me reading an ebook.

The transition (as I am sure many of you have found) from physical book to ebook, has however not been easy or smooth, especially with a good number of publishers playing games with availability and pricing.

It has become so ridiculous and annoying, that I have mostly given up and started enjoying the many benefits of Indie authors. Sure many aren't perfect, and they have their own annoyances, but overall I feel happier dealing with them, rather than those I feel are the enemy.

The enemy that is, to fairness, ethics and morality.

While it appears that mainstream ebook purchasing has declined, Indie ebooks by all accounts are on the rise.

The reader nowadays has more choice than ever ... not only with content and quantity, but how much they need to pay.

One could argue, that for may Indie ebooks, the quality is not there, and to some degree I guess that is true. It is not as big a degree as some of the publishers in question try to make it out to be though.

I do agree with paying more for higher quality. The question however, is how much more?

I can only estimate what is fair and reasonable to pay for an ebook, based on physical book prices. I look at the many many factors involved, and for me I have a general limit of $10 USD for a new ebook. I will sometimes go above that, for a particularly good or long book. What constitutes that type of good though, is often very subjective, so it doesn't happen much. Older books I expect to pay less for, and Indie ebooks even less ... unless they have proved themself to me with a prior read by the same author.

One needs to consider many things when it comes to books and ebooks and prices in general these days. Potential and existing customers are not what they used to be. There is so much more on offer now to entertain and distract us, and attention spans because of it appear to be much shorter. Most, if not all media, have expanded their content many times over, whether that be movies or games or books etc. And people only have so much time. Travel now, is much more prolific and all the activities on offer.

So why are so many publishers playing hard ball, when surely the writing is on the wall, that they need to adapt and change their commercial model?

Shouldn't they be trying to make their books more attractive? Part of which is user friendly, so an ebook ... and at a fair price.

HarryT · 03-26-2019, 09:54 AM

We've had this discussion a thousand times before and, as always, the answer is very simple: if you think a book is too expensive, don't buy it. If a sufficient proportion of other potential buyers think similarly to you, the publisher will either adjust their prices or go out of business. If sufficient people think that the price is fair and buy it, they won't.

Personally I think ebooks are very reasonably priced. I buy mainly "back catalogue" crime fiction and pay around half to two thirds the price of the paperback, which seems eminently fair to me. Eg Dick Francis' ebooks at Amazon UK are £3.99; the paperback is £7.99.

ilovejedd · 03-26-2019, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Personally I think ebooks are very reasonably priced. I buy mainly "back catalogue" crime fiction and pay around half to two thirds the price of the paperback, which seems eminently fair to me. Eg Dick Francis' ebooks at Amazon UK are £3.99; the paperback is £7.99.

Alas, in the US I often see ebooks costing the same or more than the mass market paperback edition.

crossi · 03-26-2019, 11:28 AM

A lot of authors who used to be "auto buys" have lost me to the point where I don't even search their names anymore, whereas I used to subscribe to upcoming book magazines and kept a list of their books that were due out months later. I bet they have lost a lot of other customers and they are unlikely to ever get them back. Oh well, their loss is some other author's gain.

McGonigle · 03-26-2019, 11:38 AM

£20 - £40, or $27 - $53 for physical books and ebooks here in Denmark. The ebooks are sometimes more expensive than their physical counterparts. If you want something that isn't mass-market, you're likely to have to pay even more.

Public libraries incredibly actually limit the amount of digital copies available, in order to try to boost sales and their apps don't work on eink devices.

I'm very lucky that I can save a ton of money by just going to Amazon, Kobo, Gutenberg etc. for my needs because I'm not reading much else than English/American.

I certainly sympathise with the sentiments expressed by the OP. It seems some publishers have no clue at all of the sales they're missing.

theducks · 03-26-2019, 11:43 AM

When Baen went with traditional outlets (and their pricing), I severely cut back (to almost 0) and went with Indy published (and put up with less than stellar editing

) for <=$4.99
No paper, No press, No large warehouse (the entire backlist will fit on a 1RU server). Sorry, but I am not subsidizing the paper side of the business.

Timboli · 03-26-2019, 12:30 PM

@HarryT - I agree in part with what you said, but my topic is about more than that. It's not really the same old same old, but inevitably covers much the same ground in parts.

Lucky you with Dick Francis etc. Likewise, I also buy reasonably priced ebooks, even brand new ones. C.J. Box is the perfect example of a best seller selling at fair prices, as is Terry Goodkind and Val McDermid and a host of others.

As has been said, it is often down to where you live and where the author calls home ground, to how fair prices can be.

AUS is a very affluent country, but it isn't America, so the prices often reflect that. AUS is also full of middle class fools who have no sense when it comes to money, and often that is why stuff is much higher priced here than it should be. The poorer classes of course are always the ones impacted in the throwaway mentality society.

Anyway I have given up expecting the bad publishers to do the right thing. But I am interested, very much so, in their anticipated fate. Unfortunately, they are likely to take some damn good authors down with them, who are locked into long contracts, and don't appear to have much say. The possibility of that makes me sad and worried indeed. I also worry about how their writing is being impacted by the state of things.

Timboli · 03-26-2019, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theducks

Sorry, but I am not subsidizing the paper side of the business.

In total agreeance with you.

Timboli · 03-26-2019, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

Alas, in the US I often see ebooks costing the same or more than the mass market paperback edition.

Often the same here in AUS.

Timboli · 03-26-2019, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGonigle

It seems some publishers have no clue at all of the sales they're missing.

Indeed, it appears so.

Some of course are locked in the past where they had full control, and are fighting against giving that up, and it seems that is often more important than the money .... of course, many of them have already made a shitload of cash already, so can rest on their high horse, in a effort to prove a stupid point.

Timboli · 03-26-2019, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crossi

A lot of authors who used to be "auto buys" have lost me to the point where I don't even search their names anymore, whereas I used to subscribe to upcoming book magazines and kept a list of their books that were due out months later. I bet they have lost a lot of other customers and they are unlikely to ever get them back. Oh well, their loss is some other author's gain.

Can't fault you there, I am not the religious devoted fan of the many I used to be. They have put my nose out of joint, and I don't like the bad smell, so I tend to avoid. Once in a while I do a catchup, but mostly that just rubs salt in the wound ... so I go for a lovely stroll through Indie Land, and grab a few to make myself feel better.

GeoffR · 03-26-2019, 01:50 PM

I think a good book at $13.99 is a bargain, but a bad book at $0.99 is massively overpriced.

Deskisamess · 03-26-2019, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffR

I think a good book at $13.99 is a bargain, but a bad book at $0.99 is massively overpriced.

Agreed. I don't base my book purchases on price. I don't care what the print book price may be if I'm shopping for a digital book. I don't expect publishers to price Kindle books at a lower price than the same print books. I think that actually encourages the idea that e-books are a fad, or are somehow inferior to print books.

Digital books offer more benefits. IMO they are worth more than paper books. I can't read paperbacks anymore, and I have trouble even with hardbound books. E-books made it possible for me to read for pleasure again.

We all have things we buy that some find extravagant. That doesn't mean their price points are out of line. We happily pay $20+ per pound for sockeye salmon when it is available. Not everyone would "get" that.

Sirtel · 03-26-2019, 03:29 PM

I don't look at paper book prices either, but I refuse to buy an ebook that's priced over 10 €. I can still buy a lot of new books (in English language) even so, and if something I want to read is above my limit, I'll just wait. Usually the price will come down after a while.

Books in my native language are generally well above my 10 € limit, so I buy them rarely. Only if it's something I really, really want to read and it's not translated from English (in the latter case, I would just buy the much cheaper original). But I get why the prices are so high. The Estonian language market is very small, after all. Nothing to be done about that. Fortunately I can and do most of my fiction reading in English.

All in all, I'm personally quite satisfied with ebook pricing as it stands now.

ZodWallop · 03-26-2019, 05:30 PM

I'm empathetic to that argument. But:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timboli

I've been reading and collecting books for many decades now, and even before ebooks came into my life, I was way behind with my reading, and once I started collecting ebooks (legally) that multiplied a hundred-fold, perhaps more. I am at the point, where unless a miracle in science regarding longevity at least, occurs, I am not going to ever read all I have.

I think readers like you and I, that buy books when they are on sale rather than when we are ready to read them (and therefore buy many books and have towering TBR piles) wind up with a skewed view of eBook prices.

As an example, Mr. X by Peter Straub (a book I very much enjoyed) has dropped to $5.99. That is a very fair price. But since I am used to picking up books from between $0.99 - $2.99, it still feels 'expensive' to me. If it goes on sale for my range, it'll be an insta-buy.

I do think back list fiction books (books over 10 years old) that sell for more than $10 do feel outrageous.

(All prices US. Not sure what the Australian equivalents would be.)

03-26-2019, 08:13 AM	#1
Timboli Fanatic Posts: 570 Karma: 1959510 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: AUS Device: Kindles & Samsung Tablet	Do some publishers have any idea? Or another way to re-phrase the title. Do publishers who overcharge for ebooks, have a clue? It doesn't seem they do to me, and they appear to be backing themselves into the niche corner. Ultimately time will tell of course. I've been reading and collecting books for many decades now, and even before ebooks came into my life, I was way behind with my reading, and once I started collecting ebooks (legally) that multiplied a hundred-fold, perhaps more. I am at the point, where unless a miracle in science regarding longevity at least, occurs, I am not going to ever read all I have. Because I have so many, and because I am so far behind, then when I want to purchase an ebook by one of the many authors I follow, if I don't like the price, I can just wait it out .... perhaps forever, because I am never short of something to read. Now let's get something clear, I am happy to pay a fair price, always have been. I don't have to get something at a 'cheap as' bargain price. If such ever comes my way, of course I will grab it .... just like I am constantly snapping up great sounding Indie ebooks for free. But I like to support the authors I like and love. I follow many authors, and I do so, because I like their writing. If I like an author, then I generally just buy their next book, never bothering with Reviews (especially as to me, they are some kind of spoiler regardless). When I will buy their book though, is always governed by the price. For a few years now, I have preferred to read an ebook, and even though I have hundreds (perhaps thousands) of unread physical books, you will more often find me reading an ebook. The transition (as I am sure many of you have found) from physical book to ebook, has however not been easy or smooth, especially with a good number of publishers playing games with availability and pricing. It has become so ridiculous and annoying, that I have mostly given up and started enjoying the many benefits of Indie authors. Sure many aren't perfect, and they have their own annoyances, but overall I feel happier dealing with them, rather than those I feel are the enemy. The enemy that is, to fairness, ethics and morality. While it appears that mainstream ebook purchasing has declined, Indie ebooks by all accounts are on the rise. The reader nowadays has more choice than ever ... not only with content and quantity, but how much they need to pay. One could argue, that for may Indie ebooks, the quality is not there, and to some degree I guess that is true. It is not as big a degree as some of the publishers in question try to make it out to be though. I do agree with paying more for higher quality. The question however, is how much more? I can only estimate what is fair and reasonable to pay for an ebook, based on physical book prices. I look at the many many factors involved, and for me I have a general limit of $10 USD for a new ebook. I will sometimes go above that, for a particularly good or long book. What constitutes that type of good though, is often very subjective, so it doesn't happen much. Older books I expect to pay less for, and Indie ebooks even less ... unless they have proved themself to me with a prior read by the same author. One needs to consider many things when it comes to books and ebooks and prices in general these days. Potential and existing customers are not what they used to be. There is so much more on offer now to entertain and distract us, and attention spans because of it appear to be much shorter. Most, if not all media, have expanded their content many times over, whether that be movies or games or books etc. And people only have so much time. Travel now, is much more prolific and all the activities on offer. So why are so many publishers playing hard ball, when surely the writing is on the wall, that they need to adapt and change their commercial model? Shouldn't they be trying to make their books more attractive? Part of which is user friendly, so an ebook ... and at a fair price.

03-26-2019, 12:30 PM	#7
Timboli Fanatic Posts: 570 Karma: 1959510 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: AUS Device: Kindles & Samsung Tablet	@HarryT - I agree in part with what you said, but my topic is about more than that. It's not really the same old same old, but inevitably covers much the same ground in parts. Lucky you with Dick Francis etc. Likewise, I also buy reasonably priced ebooks, even brand new ones. C.J. Box is the perfect example of a best seller selling at fair prices, as is Terry Goodkind and Val McDermid and a host of others. As has been said, it is often down to where you live and where the author calls home ground, to how fair prices can be. AUS is a very affluent country, but it isn't America, so the prices often reflect that. AUS is also full of middle class fools who have no sense when it comes to money, and often that is why stuff is much higher priced here than it should be. The poorer classes of course are always the ones impacted in the throwaway mentality society. Anyway I have given up expecting the bad publishers to do the right thing. But I am interested, very much so, in their anticipated fate. Unfortunately, they are likely to take some damn good authors down with them, who are locked into long contracts, and don't appear to have much say. The possibility of that makes me sad and worried indeed. I also worry about how their writing is being impacted by the state of things. Last edited by Timboli; 03-26-2019 at 12:35 PM.

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03-26-2019, 09:54 AM	#2
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	We've had this discussion a thousand times before and, as always, the answer is very simple: if you think a book is too expensive, don't buy it. If a sufficient proportion of other potential buyers think similarly to you, the publisher will either adjust their prices or go out of business. If sufficient people think that the price is fair and buy it, they won't. Personally I think ebooks are very reasonably priced. I buy mainly "back catalogue" crime fiction and pay around half to two thirds the price of the paperback, which seems eminently fair to me. Eg Dick Francis' ebooks at Amazon UK are £3.99; the paperback is £7.99.

03-26-2019, 11:28 AM	#4
crossi Guru Posts: 992 Karma: 12000001 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Seattle Wahington U.S. Device: kindle	A lot of authors who used to be "auto buys" have lost me to the point where I don't even search their names anymore, whereas I used to subscribe to upcoming book magazines and kept a list of their books that were due out months later. I bet they have lost a lot of other customers and they are unlikely to ever get them back. Oh well, their loss is some other author's gain.

03-26-2019, 11:38 AM	#5
McGonigle Connoisseur Posts: 96 Karma: 1529376 Join Date: Jul 2014 Device: Kobo Aura One, iPad 2018,	£20 - £40, or $27 - $53 for physical books and ebooks here in Denmark. The ebooks are sometimes more expensive than their physical counterparts. If you want something that isn't mass-market, you're likely to have to pay even more. Public libraries incredibly actually limit the amount of digital copies available, in order to try to boost sales and their apps don't work on eink devices. I'm very lucky that I can save a ton of money by just going to Amazon, Kobo, Gutenberg etc. for my needs because I'm not reading much else than English/American. I certainly sympathise with the sentiments expressed by the OP. It seems some publishers have no clue at all of the sales they're missing.

03-26-2019, 11:43 AM	#6
theducks Well trained by Cats Posts: 29,785 Karma: 54830978 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Central Coast of California Device: Kobo Libra2,Kobo Aura2v1, K4NT(Fixed: New Bat.), Galaxy Tab A	When Baen went with traditional outlets (and their pricing), I severely cut back (to almost 0) and went with Indy published (and put up with less than stellar editing ) for <=$4.99 No paper, No press, No large warehouse (the entire backlist will fit on a 1RU server). Sorry, but I am not subsidizing the paper side of the business.

03-26-2019, 01:50 PM	#12
GeoffR Wizard Posts: 3,821 Karma: 19162882 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Te Riu-a-Māui Device: Kobo Glo	I think a good book at $13.99 is a bargain, but a bad book at $0.99 is massively overpriced.

03-26-2019, 03:29 PM	#14
Sirtel Grand Sorcerer Posts: 10,083 Karma: 224756896 Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Estonia Device: Kobo Sage & Libra 2	I don't look at paper book prices either, but I refuse to buy an ebook that's priced over 10 €. I can still buy a lot of new books (in English language) even so, and if something I want to read is above my limit, I'll just wait. Usually the price will come down after a while. Books in my native language are generally well above my 10 € limit, so I buy them rarely. Only if it's something I really, really want to read and it's not translated from English (in the latter case, I would just buy the much cheaper original). But I get why the prices are so high. The Estonian language market is very small, after all. Nothing to be done about that. Fortunately I can and do most of my fiction reading in English. All in all, I'm personally quite satisfied with ebook pricing as it stands now.