A plea to writers/editors

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Alyssa Miranda

When I finished reading it, Peggy Lee's classic rendition of Is That All There Is? the Lieber and Stoller song came to mind (the pair also wrote the immortal Hound Dog).

Hitch

[rkomar]

The biggest problem for me is when the same character says two things in a row, not in the same paragraph, without attribution in the second one. That always puts the brakes on my reading flow.

[4691mls]

Originally Posted by rkomar

The biggest problem for me is when the same character says two things in a row, not in the same paragraph, without attribution in the second one. That always puts the brakes on my reading flow.

I once read a book (don't remember now what book it was) where that happened frequently. It was really confusing.

[Alyssa Miranda]

Re: dialogue without tags, I recently re-read The Sun Also Rises, the novel published in 1926 that launched Hemingway's career, if not the American Macho genre, and was struck by the modern feel of his dialogue. Not only was it clear (usually) who was speaking without tags, the avoidance of excessive use of "said," the most deadly of flow-killers, also worked. (Disclaimer: I am no fan of bull fighting, which has no place in a civilized society.)

- Alyssa

[gmw]

When I read The Sun Also Rises a couple of years ago I had trouble finding anything good to say about it, most especially the dialogue. But I realise now that there is something: I was never confused about who was speaking. So thanks for that. It turns out I'm no fan of Hemingway; reading The Sun Also Rises was part of my journey to discovering that.

[Alyssa Miranda]

I'm really not a fan either, but it does seem Hemingway's influence on modern writing style has been enormous. As to The Sun Also Rises, just as distasteful as the bull fighting is the liberal use of the n-word and not so subtle antisemitism, which apparently did not raise any eyebrows at the time. More generally, the shallowness and dissolution of the characters is depressing, although the last couple of chapters were well done and for me saved the book (as did all too few humorous and insightful snippets here and there).

- Alyssa

[DiapDealer]

I find over-attribution more annoying than too little attribution in dialogue. If the author's not good enough at written dialogue to keep things clear without a a lot of "Bob said; John expounded; Alice wheedled"s being interjected, then adding them isn't likely to keep me reading either. Quite the opposite, in fact. If individual characters' voices can't be distinguished without constant prompting, then the author/book usually isn't for me.

McCormac's non-use of traditional conversational punctuation is a bit extreme for my taste, but it never really caused me any confusion. It's not the lack of punctuation that keeps me away from his books--in fact his characters' voices are quite distinct without it, in my opinion. I just can't connect with any of them.

[Alyssa Miranda]

I think what suckered me into The Road was a tout by Oprah Winfrey; about the same time I believe she extolled a book at least some of which later turned out to be made up. If she recommends a book, run, don't walk, to the nearest door (just my opinion).

- Alyssa

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I find over-attribution more annoying than too little attribution in dialogue. If the author's not good enough at written dialogue to keep things clear without a a lot of "Bob said; John expounded; Alice wheedled"s being interjected, then adding them isn't likely to keep me reading either. Quite the opposite, in fact. If individual characters' voices can't be distinguished without constant prompting, then the author/book usually isn't for me.

McCormac's non-use of traditional conversational punctuation is a bit extreme for my taste, but it never really caused me any confusion. It's not the lack of punctuation that keeps me away from his books--in fact his characters voices are quite distinct without it, in my opinion. I just can't connect with any of them.

Yes--to me, that's the larger problem. I simply...I don't care if it's Angela's Ashes or The Road...I just cannot connect at all to his characters. Not sure why, but...just don't.

On the aforementioned bullfighting--to me, "bullfighting" is simply cruelty with applause.

Hitch

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Alyssa Miranda

bout the same time I believe she extolled a book at least some of which later turned out to be made up.

Ah... the "memoir."

I enjoyed reading A Million Little Pieces. And I determined there was very little incentive for me to go to all the bother of "un-enjoying" it after learning it wasn't strictly autobiographical. I understand why so many might have been upset, but I've always viewed the label of "Memoir" (as opposed to autobiography) as an author's way of being able to hedge on reality a bit. Much like "narrative non-fiction." Even before the news broke, I had my doubts as to whether Frey's book was 100% non-fiction. Hell, I even bought and read the follow-up (and enjoyed it, too!) knowing full well it wasn't exactly gospel truth.

[Alyssa Miranda]

Your points are well made. I should not have in effect prejudged the book without having read it.

- Alyssa

[arjaybe]

Originally Posted by Hitch

On the aforementioned bullfighting--to me, "bullfighting" is simply cruelty with applause.

Hitch

Yeah. Maybe if the odds were more like 50:50 ...

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Alyssa Miranda

Your points are well made. I should not have in effect prejudged the book without having read it.

- Alyssa

Oh, I understand the disappointment and critisism. People don't like finding out what they believed to be strictly biographical non-fiction was embellished and exaggerated to sell books. I'm just aware of how memoirs and narrative non-fiction are dealt with by agents and the publishing world in general. They WANT memoir authors to "spice things up." I lowered my expectations accordingly.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Yes--to me, that's the larger problem. I simply...I don't care if it's Angela's Ashes or The Road...I just cannot connect at all to his characters. Not sure why, but...just don't.

On the aforementioned bullfighting--to me, "bullfighting" is simply cruelty with applause.

Hitch

Angela’s Ashes by Frank McCourt? Am I missing something?

I loved Angela’s Ashes, a wonderful memoir, but at this remove I can’t remember if there was anything hinky with the punctuation. I didn’t like his subsequent memoirs nearly as much, which is not atypical for me. Evelyn Waugh in a letter said something about how everyone’s got a good memoir of their childhood in them, and I’ve found that to be true more often than not. leading to disappointment when the story continued.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by issybird

Angela’s Ashes by Frank McCourt? Am I missing something?

I loved Angela’s Ashes, a wonderful memoir, but at this remove I can’t remember if there was anything hinky with the punctuation. I didn’t like his subsequent memoirs nearly as much, which is not atypical for me. Evelyn Waugh in a letter said something about how everyone’s got a good memoir of their childhood in them, and I’ve found that to be true more often than not. leading to disappointment when the story continued.

Nope, I misspoke. That's what happens when I type too fast and think too slow.

What's the one I'm thinking of? The Crossing? Sugar... Now I'll have to go rummage though my bookcase to find it, or on my list. Sorry!

Hitch