Applying the concept of Bitcoin in eBooks

[webroot]

Digital currencies such as Bitcoin would maintain single valid copy of files throughout the internet (world). If the same concept can be applied to eBooks then it would fix lot of nuisances and monopoly happening in intellectual property industry.

We know about the Amazon's stronghold and Overdrive on retail and libraries respectively, eBook adoption in colleges are low because publishers aren't willing to sell eBooks to library, the worry behind is it would reduce their profit. Just because 1 eBook => unlimited students can access them at any time. of-course there are some service provider that fix the simultaneous number of access to eBooks but they are poorly made ad-hoc solution.

But what if a fixed number of eBooks can be maintained using a new type of computer file exchange system, so the problem is solved for everyone, readers can have eBooks without DRM, piracy is eliminated, publishers can sell directly, and libraries will get eBooks at ultra low price. There will be no middleman.

EDIT: I do not wish similarity of bitcoin and this posting to be taken literally, I was stressing the demand for digital goods act similar to physical goods they can be transported only by omitting first copy. Otherwise with current form of internet and file exchange, future is going to be difficult when there will be 99% digital goods for most things.

[eschwartz]

What???

Erm, you kind of need some form of access control, unless you propose uploading the books to public servers which is rather counterintuitive.

And bitcoin registers track who owns which bitcoins, but anyone can still write down someone else's bitcoins. You can't prevent the actual data from, being copied, you can only tell people the other copy is unauthorized. So someone's ebook is unauthorized -- why do they care?

[webroot]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

What???

Erm, you kind of need some form of access control, unless y

Oops I made fundamental mistake on my idea... there is chance of using public server for ownership management but all that become tedious and like ADEPT.

[eschwartz]

Yes, because you need access control systems. That is what ADEPT provides.
(Well, it does account-verified downloads in addition to client-side obfuscation.)

[HarryT]

Can you upload a design specification for what you're proposing, rather than just a few vague words? It'll make it a lot easier to give you sensible feedback that way.

[GERGE]

This would mean nothing. Valid bitcoin buys you things, this doesn't mean anything for ebooks. A pirated copy that is a pirated copy is a pirated copy.

[webroot]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Can you upload a design specification for what you're proposing, rather than just a few vague words? It'll make it a lot easier to give you sensible feedback that way.

like eschwartz mentioned, replicating Bitcoin concept is next to impossible but I open to any possibility of public server(s), or (maybe somekind of state managed) server similar to ICANN, that can associate users with files on internet, basically it will be maintaining a table of "unique file hash" and corresponding public key of a human user, which device maker and software developers can access to validate users, this will of course require online access. and a largest database as of now

Currently ADEPT is validating individual device but here validation will be against individual files.

Lets say:

User A's (userA@example.com) -> using email address create pair of public/ private keys

User A's owns a file -> from this file we generate a hash key (file id)

Now in our universal database we link user's public key with file id.

Now coming any DRM software that first needs to validate user against file, will take users public key + file hash and match it against universal database, once that succeeded. it will proceed with decryption using private key.

it will help with certificate management (ownership) and consolidate that work to one place, instead of individual companies handling them.

Lets say i you send me any file via that system your ownership will go away, of course this is not all-in-one solution and cannot eliminate piracy and system depends on honesty of ereader software but i hope that it can be helpful for libraries and publishers.

[HarryT]

In your original post you said "readers can have eBooks without DRM, piracy is eliminated..." but what you're proposing appears to be a DRM system. How will this eliminate piracy?

[webroot]

Originally Posted by HarryT

In your original post you said "readers can have eBooks without DRM, piracy is eliminated..." but what you're proposing appears to be a DRM system. How will this eliminate piracy?

did you read third posting ? I accepted that that it is going to be impossible and changed the idea a little bit. Public libraries and colleges face hard time when it comes to obtaining eBooks directly from publishers and having a collaborative managed server for certificate management will be helpful. these servers can be managed by group of publishers, group of college or any other interested third party.

Btw I think DRM wont go in future but opposite, as more and more information is coming in forms of intellectual property the need to maintain only single copy of the work throughout also goes with it. You can bash publishers for being greedy but writer also get deprived of their royalties just think if one eBook is shared amongst all the student in a class.

[eschwartz]

What is the purpose of your modified idea? We already have DRM systems. What will a new implementation of a DRM system do to help anyone? To make yet another incompatible-with-everyone-else store? Or maybe to make vendors have to spend a lot of money to upgrade their device firmware for no good reason? (Hint: Not happening...)

What difference does it make if files are encrypted with a per-user key vs. a per-device key? Either publishers want DRM or they don't, and if they don't then they don/'t need this DRM at all, or they do want DRM, in which case the implementation will still have to hide the book from the user.


It sounds like you are attempting to propose a scheme for delivering files to users, which only the user can access. Rather than letting everyone download it but encrypting it for the user, why not just do what everyone has been doing for, like, a really long time, and use website logins?

[webroot]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

What is the purpose of your modified idea? We already have DRM systems. What will a new ..

I feeling I was not good at explaining why I asked this particular question and special scenarios but. let me first ask you, what is your opinion on the future of DRM? lets say in five years from now, drm (any form) will get weaken or even stronger ? Assuming that there would evolve better drm schemes not that trivial to crack.

[eschwartz]

DRM will weaken as publishers realize it isn't useful.

And assuming that better DRM schemes will evolve is ridiculous -- it doesn't hold water on technical merits.
The current DRM is not trivial to crack -- but that is why people have spent a lot of time developing the routines that do it automically.

[webroot]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

DRM will weaken as publishers realize it isn't useful.

And assuming that better DRM schemes will evolve is ridiculous -- it doesn't hold water on technical merits.
The current DRM is not trivial to crack -- but that is why people have spent a lot of time developing the routines that do it automically.

well it is hard to say something like that about future ( impossibly workable drm) few years back people would have laughed at when somebody talked of bitcoin, it will be upon nventors and their desire that will shape future . if drm go then how would publisher or author make living? consider when print edition become a minority and i am not talking only about cheap titles.

[HarryT]

DRM is generally not a problem if a format is universal. Eg, the overwhelming majority of people aren't inconvenienced by DRM on DVDs, because any DVD can be played on any DVD player (few people buy "out of region" DVDs, and those who do, generally know what they're doing). The reason it's an issue for eBooks is the fact that different devices use different book formats.

[webroot]

Originally Posted by HarryT

DRM is generally not a problem if a format is universal. Eg, the overwhelming majority of people aren't inconvenienced by DRM on DVDs, because any DVD can be played on any DVD player (few people buy "out of region" DVDs, and those who do, generally know what they're doing). The reason it's an issue for eBooks is the fact that different devices use different book formats.

You said it, and if the file format and decryption procedure gets universal/ standardized then it makes life easy for hackers to build a crack. So what do you think there is no possibility of workable drm, can't we have a working system in future similar to successful ecommerce. Other option could be to implement stringent laws on internet but that would be hard because its going to be crossborder issue. What i am saying is drm has to be there as long as problem exist.