How do Americans feel about UK spelling?

[etienne66]

I am a native Texan and I have to agree with most of those so far. I prefer the dialect to be consistent with the location in question. I might have had to look up the word gaol in the dictionary, but I don't mind that because it just adds to the character of the book. I was extremely saddened that they "Americanized" the Harry Potter books. I would have preferred reading the original text.

But of course I may be a bit of an oddball, I also like to watch some British shows like Doctor Who and Torchwood.

Etienne66

[nomesque]

I use Australian idioms and spellings in my books. This does - every now and then - raise complaints from people. Usually American, unaware that there is more than one form of English, and unused to needing to adjust cultures in order to read a book. In particular, 'arse' is a 'misspelling' that REALLY annoys some folk. *snort*

Here's the thing - know your target audience, decide what you will and won't do for them. You're likely to run into people who won't read books written in Australian English. But are they are a large percentage of your potential readers? And if they are, do you care enough to change your book?

[MacEachaidh]

Originally Posted by nomesque

I use Australian idioms and spellings in my books. This does - every now and then - raise complaints from people. Usually American, unaware that there is more than one form of English, and unused to needing to adjust cultures in order to read a book. In particular, 'arse' is a 'misspelling' that REALLY annoys some folk. *snort*

Love this. I always write with Aussie spellings on the internet, and it's a little alarming how often in forums and the like this leads to confrontation by people from the US "correcting" my spelling. (Most usually, by pointing out what a "dumbass" I am, and other withering attempts at "pwning".) An example that immediately springs to mind is the past tense in words like "dreamt" or "leapt" or "spelt" (not the cereal), which is almost guaranteed to push people's buttons. And when others such as Brits or Kiwis have waded into the fray to point out they're valid spellings, it's a bit sad how frequently it's turned rancorous by obstinate (sorry, I have to say it) people from the US who apparently refuse to believe there are other ways to spell things and use English than the one way they're used to.

We've got an advantage, in a sense, of more experience in variations, if only because we're forced to adapt by encountering American spelling almost every moment of the day. But it still amazes me when Americans don't seem to realise even the possibility that other people in the world could do things differently from their way.

[orwell2k]

Just my $0.02 worth:
(Note: in the spirit of the discussion, perhaps I should write $A0.02 to avoid confusion with $US0.02, or maybe €0.02 as I live in Europe? - anyway, I digress...):

Due to the diversity of English I guess it's impossible to please everyone, so I would recommend the author write in the language and form with which they are comfortable. English is quite a hybrid language, except perhaps the US is more insulated from other variants than other countries - I suspect the UK has been infiltrated with more US usage than vice versa?

I have to admit in Australia I was taught UK spelling, so seeing US books when I was young took a bit of adjustment, but it was sort of 'Oh, OK' kind of thing, a shrug of the shoulder and move on - no major crisis, it was just how it was.

But a lot of the grammar taught to me, at least to do with punctuation, seems strictly more US than UK - I was taught to use double quotes, with singles as the secondary quote when needed, and I was also taugh that the closed quote always sits outside the full-stop (that's a 'period' to our US friends), comma, question mark, and so on - like thus: ("...end of sentence.").

As you may have noticed, I have taken a liking to the single quote, and tend to use that in my writing, as per the UK form, with double quotes as the secondary, thus: 'He claimed he had "never seen anything like it".' The UK usage seems to follow a contextual rule rather than a strict 'outside the other punctuation marks' rule, which I prefer.

Whilst having no major gripe with UK, US or any other English usage in particular, there are always some really annoying points with US spelling I find drive me nuts: lighted vs lit is one - 'he lighted a cigarette' or 'he lit a cigarette'. To me, 'lit' is the only choice, but I see more and more usage of lighted. There's a few other words like this.

Words ending in '-ise' or '-ize' still confuse me - it seems US is '-ize' but UK can use either '-ise' or '-ize'. I tend to use '-ise' but am not sure why - it just happens. I recall someone said to me that the '-ise' form was more prevalent in UK English because many of the words ending in '-ise' came from the French, which uses this form - not sure if that's crap or what.

I also always use centre instead of center, theatre instead of theater, defence instead of defense, and so on. I worked at a joint US/Australian defence facility some years back, and the name of the site was 'Joint Defence Facility' (as it was in Australia), but it was always a challenge to convince my US colleagues and visitors that it wasn't a spelling mistake?

Anyway, always lots of good items to discuss in usage of English language, and a chance for us to exchange ideas and expand our understanding. Cheers!

P.S. We don't have a strict grid system in Australia either, but regardless of whether streets run perpendicular or at angles and curves, a 'block' is usually clearly understood to mean 'a section of street from where one street crosses it to the next'. So this term was often used in suburbs as well as city centres, where you could say 'the shop is two blocks over' or something like that. I guess we probably had too much US TV!

[nomesque]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

Love this. I always write with Aussie spellings on the internet, and it's a little alarming how often in forums and the like this leads to confrontation by people from the US "correcting" my spelling. (Most usually, by pointing out what a "dumbass" I am, and other withering attempts at "pwning".) An example that immediately springs to mind is the past tense in words like "dreamt" or "leapt" or "spelt" (not the cereal), which is almost guaranteed to push people's buttons. And when others such as Brits or Kiwis have waded into the fray to point out they're valid spellings, it's a bit sad how frequently it's turned rancorous by obstinate (sorry, I have to say it) people from the US who apparently refuse to believe there are other ways to spell things and use English than the one way they're used to.

I don't think I've ever bothered to argue. I tend to shrug and think 'dumbaRse' as I wander away.

However, I do think my way's not necessarily right for other writers - 'grumpy old crank' only helps my reputation. But for example; people aiming at the standard American reading public, or at children, might want to produce an American English version.

One more point - as an Aussie, it's wonderfully refreshing to read a book full of Aussie slang and spelling, unashamed, no dumbing-down for international readers. I read an Aussie indie book recently that made me realise how rare this is for me. Bliss.

[dworth]

Like anything else, I think the rule is 'write what you know'. Don't try and write characters that speak in particular dialects or come from a particular place unless you're willing to do your research. Even the professionals make this mistake, for example:

I'm British and I loved 'Frasier' when they showed it over here and watched it religiously every Friday on Channel 4. Frasier was very funny and witty and had clever scripts except... they had a British character. Daphne was supposed to be from Manchester in the north of England but was played by an actress from the south of England who couldn't do the accent. (British accents and dialects can vary enormously even over very short distances, drive an hour in any direction and people will speak differently). She had two brothers, one of whom had a Scottish accent and one of whom had a Dick van Dyke style cockney accent. She would often talk about her life in Manchester, hanging around the docks, watching the fishing boats come in. Manchester is thirty miles or so inland, and its only docks were on the canal for unloading coal and cotton. And so on...

Of course most US viewers would be unaware, but British viewers tended to roll their eyes somewhat.

[MacEachaidh]

Situations like that puzzle me, dworth. (It happens with Australian characters/situations too, of course.) In Daphne's case, for instance, wouldn't you think the actress might have said, "Hang on, that's not quite how it was ..."?

I was recently introduced to the TV show of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer", and have found myself frowning at the character of Spike, who's supposed to be English. He often misuses English colloquialisms and mispronounces words (one that sticks out is when he calls someone - usually Angel, the other vampire, a "poofter", but pronounces the double-o to rhyme with "boot" rather than "foot"). The weird thing is that Anthony Stewart Head is often standing right there, in the same scene, and I don't understand why he doesn't seem to have spoken up and corrected him.

If it was just for one audience that most probably wouldn't know the difference, then it arguably might not matter. But the big American networks, and shows like "Frasier", rely on international sales these days as part of their budgets. It would seem so easy to get it right - or at least closer to "right" than they currently do.

[crich70]

I remember reading somewhere that back in the old days (before the railroads and canals) the differences in accents etc. in different parts of England were so large that once when some sailors were shipwrecked some 50 miles from London the local people thought they were from a foreign country and possibly spies or something. Seems hard to believe today but I guess in the past when people didn't move about so much such was commonplace.

Originally Posted by dworth

Like anything else, I think the rule is 'write what you know'. Don't try and write characters that speak in particular dialects or come from a particular place unless you're willing to do your research. Even the professionals make this mistake, for example:

I'm British and I loved 'Frasier' when they showed it over here and watched it religiously every Friday on Channel 4. Frasier was very funny and witty and had clever scripts except... they had a British character. Daphne was supposed to be from Manchester in the north of England but was played by an actress from the south of England who couldn't do the accent. (British accents and dialects can vary enormously even over very short distances, drive an hour in any direction and people will speak differently). She had two brothers, one of whom had a Scottish accent and one of whom had a Dick van Dyke style cockney accent. She would often talk about her life in Manchester, hanging around the docks, watching the fishing boats come in. Manchester is thirty miles or so inland, and its only docks were on the canal for unloading coal and cotton. And so on...

Of course most US viewers would be unaware, but British viewers tended to roll their eyes somewhat.

[crich70]

Interesting. Did they change the street names much to reflect that the former stables are now apartments or are they still called something with mews in the name? I have also heard that apartments are called flats in England, or is that term antiquated now? I have some ancestry from England (around the Devonshire area). Puddicombe's and Roses, and in fact there is supposed to be a Puddicombe's landing (I believe somewhere in Devonshire) though I've never been able to find it on a map.

Originally Posted by HarryT

Sure, those words are still in common use. An alleyway is a very narrow street. A "mews" is a dead- end street, originally leading to a block of stables behind houses, from the time when every house kept horses. These days, the old stables have almost all been converted into apartments.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by crich70

Interesting. Did they change the street names much to reflect that the former stables are now apartments or are they still called something with mews in the name?

They are still called mews.

I have also heard that apartments are called flats in England, or is that term antiquated now?

No, a "flat" is still the British word for what Americans call an "apartment".

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by crich70

I remember reading somewhere that back in the old days (before the railroads and canals) the differences in accents etc. in different parts of England were so large that once when some sailors were shipwrecked some 50 miles from London the local people thought they were from a foreign country and possibly spies or something. Seems hard to believe today but I guess in the past when people didn't move about so much such was commonplace.

It was a story related by William Caxton in the preface of a book printed in 1490. He tells how a ship sailed from London bound for the Netherlands, but was forced to put into shore in Kent (on the south coast on England) because there was no wind. A merchant from the ship went ashore, and went to a local house, and asked to buy some eggs. The woman in the house didn't understand him, and thought that he was French. Luckily, another person who was with him, understood the local dialect and asked for "eyren", which was understood. Caxton goes on to complain that this makes like very difficult, because what is a printer to do when English varies so much from one part of England to another. Should he print "eggs" or "eyren"?

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by crich70

I remember reading somewhere that back in the old days (before the railroads and canals) the differences in accents etc. in different parts of England were so large that once when some sailors were shipwrecked some 50 miles from London the local people thought they were from a foreign country and possibly spies or something. Seems hard to believe today but I guess in the past when people didn't move about so much such was commonplace.

I read that story in Bill Bryson's Mother Tongue (interesting read by the way if you're at all interested in language and the differences between UK and American English).

From memory, the sailors asked for 'egges' and were totally misunderstood by the lady they spoke to (in Kent, about 50 miles from London, as you said), as the word she used for eggs was 'eyren'. I believe that, as well as the relatively static nature of the people at that time, the language was going through a period of change as well.

[abigsmurf]

If anyone's played the games Dragon Quest VIII or Dragon Quest IX, they're both very British in terms of dialogue and feature much stronger use of British accents and slang than you normally see in American media.

It's a bit tongue in cheek and over the top (one of the characters in DQVIII even says 'cor blimey' quite frequently) but it is authentically British. I'd say that DQVIII has some of the most charming dialogue of any games I've played for a long time.

DQIX even sneaks in a bunch of British pop culture references (one of the bosses does a Little Britain quote).

But anyway, if you want a heavy exposure to fairly authentic British slang, play DQVIII for the PS2.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

I believe that, as well as the relatively static nature of the people at that time, the language was going through a period of change as well.

It was; it was the period of what's called the Great Vowel Shift, which was a radical change in the pronunciation of English. It's this change which is the major difference between Middle English and Modern English. It's a bit of a linguistic mystery - nobody's really sure why it happened.

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It was; it was the period of what's called the Great Vowel Shift, which was a radical change in the pronunciation of English. It's this change which is the major difference between Middle English and Modern English. It's a bit of a linguistic mystery - nobody's really sure why it happened.

Of course we know why it happened - to confuse foreigners