Amazon removes books from Kindle? - Page 4

Gearhead · 07-18-2009, 10:10 AM

I think Amazon needs to work on their public relations. This wasn't a well thought out response by them regardless of the legality of the book they sold.

The thought that Amazon can come in whenever they please and do as they like with my property is very disturbing. It feels like I'm just renting my DX. The landlord can come in and swap out the microwave while I'm at work, I get no say in the matter. Actually, Amazon isn't even as respectable as my last landlord, at least they would have stuck a note under my door letting me know that they needed to come in for maintenance.

I've been keeping the wireless off on my Kindle unless I needed Amazon to sync books, mostly to save my Kindle's battery. I think now that I'll keep the wireless off for good....to save my privacy as well as the DRM'd books I'm renting from Amazon.

-robert

HarryT · 07-18-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead

The thought that Amazon can come in whenever they please and do as they like with my property is very disturbing. It feels like I'm just renting my DX.

The Kindle is your property, but the books on it aren't.

Quote:

You acknowledge that the sale of the Device to you does not transfer to you title to or ownership of any intellectual property rights of Amazon or its suppliers.

See? You have acknowledged that this is the case when you bought your Kindle.

Elfwreck · 07-18-2009, 10:35 AM

Not having title to the IP rights doesn't mean you don't own that copy of a particular bit of IP.

You don't own title or IP rights to a paperback book, but if a store discovers it's been selling bootlegged copies, they don't have the right to come into your house & reclaim the one they sold you.

Gearhead · 07-18-2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

See? You have acknowledged that this is the case when you bought your Kindle.

What you say is true, but I wondering if you missed the point of my message?

I explicitly acknowledged the fact that I'm renting books from Amazon in my message. What I don't like is that they can come in unannounced to my property...the Kindle DX.

In my opinion, it is not OK for any Internet connected device manufacturer to come into a device I have purchased without my express consent given on a case-by-case basis. If I lost that right due to legal wording of an EULA then I'll just keep the wireless off.

-robert

HarryT · 07-18-2009, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead

In my opinion, it is not OK for any Internet connected device manufacturer to come into a device I have purchased without my express consent given on a case-by-case basis.

So every time you buy a book from Amazon, you'd like them to do what? Send you an e-mail to ask your permission for them to send it wirelessly to your Kindle? Forgive me for saying so, but isn't the automatic wireless transmission of material to the Kindle one of the main reasons that people buy it?

Kindles delete content automatically as a matter of routine. Eg, if you subscribe to a newspaper on the Kindle, every issue more than a certain number of days old is automatically deleted.

Barcey · 07-18-2009, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

So every time you buy a book from Amazon, you'd like them to do what? Send you an e-mail to ask your permission for them to send it wirelessly to your Kindle? Forgive me for saying so, but isn't the automatic wireless transmission of material to the Kindle one of the main reasons that people buy it?

Kindles delete content automatically as a matter of routine. Eg, if you subscribe to a newspaper on the Kindle, every issue more than a certain number of days old is automatically deleted.

For me it's a push vs pull. I have to pull the content to my library the Kindle servers shouldn't have direct access to my library without my permission. In other words it's always my actions that are manipulating my personal data unless I've granted them permission to perform a specific operation. I would be OK if they could push data to a staging directory on the Kindle and I could move it from their to my library but the server is restricted to just that staging directory.

Scheduled deletion of expired content is being performed locally not by the mother ship accessing my library.

JSWolf · 07-18-2009, 11:16 AM

How many threads do we actually need to have about Amazon deleting illegally sold content from Kindles? And why is it that people are getting out of sorts on something that was the right thing to do? And why do you have a Kindle if you don't want Amazon to be able to get inside?

Gearhead · 07-18-2009, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

So every time you buy a book from Amazon, you'd like them to do what? Send you an e-mail to ask your permission for them to send it wirelessly to your Kindle? Forgive me for saying so, but isn't the automatic wireless transmission of material to the Kindle one of the main reasons that people buy it?

I think of receiving books by wireless from Amazon like getting an email on my computer. I have control over my email, I can block, filter or opt-out any time. Getting books should be like getting email. I am the only one that gets to decide when I delete an email. Same for books.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Kindles delete content automatically as a matter of routine. Eg, if you subscribe to a newspaper on the Kindle, every issue more than a certain number of days old is automatically deleted.

As for deleting content automatically, I assumed that it is My Kindle, not Amazon that is auto-deleting subscription content, not a push from Amazon but I could be wrong.

-robert

HarryT · 07-18-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead

As for deleting content automatically, I assumed that it is My Kindle, not Amazon that is auto-deleting subscription content, not a push from Amazon but I could be wrong.

-robert

I believe that it's Amazon's server telling the Kindle to delete it. I'm sure that someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Stingo · 07-18-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

The Kindle is your property, but the books on it aren't.

See? You have acknowledged that this is the case when you bought your Kindle.

This means that the intellectual property inherent in the Kindle is not transferred to you. This has nothing to do with the intellectual property in the books that you "buy" and put on the kindle. You need to look at the book sale agreement to determine whether you own the books or not. If you do own the books then deleting them off the kindle is a form of tort.

HarryT · 07-18-2009, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stingo

This means that the intellectual property inherent in the Kindle is not transferred to you. This has nothing to do with the intellectual property in the books that you "buy" and put on the kindle.

Are you sure? I read the "intellectual property rights of Amazon or its suppliers" (my emphasis) as referring to the books that are in the Kindle store.

Stingo · 07-18-2009, 11:25 AM

If this was not a wake up call to people nothing is. Every book that one buys from Amazon should be stripped of the DRM and personal archive copy in MOBI format should be kept by the owner. I believe that this is contemplated and allowed by law as long as you don't distribute the copy to others.

HarryT · 07-18-2009, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stingo

If this was not a wake up call to people nothing is. Every book that one buys from Amazon should be stripped of the DRM and personal archive copy in MOBI format should be kept by the owner. I believe that this is contemplated and allowed by law as long as you don't distribute the copy to others.

I'm sorry, Stingo, but I don't follow you. Why would you want Amazon to leave illegal content on your Kindle if they discovered that it had been illegally uploaded? That could leave you personally liable to prosecution for copyright infringement. I know that I would certainly want such material to be automatically removed, both because it the "right" thing to do, and because of the legal implications of not doing so.

chaznsc · 07-18-2009, 11:45 AM

This is no longer a useful discussion. Both sides are dug in and points have been expressed. There would have to be a court(s) decision to take this to its ultimate decision.

HarryT · 07-18-2009, 12:06 PM

Yes, you're absolutely right. I shall say no more on the matter.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Kindle Books From Amazon Without DRM	catsittingstill	Amazon Kindle	23	11-26-2014 12:00 PM
Newbie Kindle owners...looking for Kindle books on Amazon?	desertgrandma	Amazon Kindle	9	10-03-2010 10:27 AM
Batch send to device removes books from my sony reader	Jag88	Calibre	4	04-10-2010 10:08 AM
SFWA removes Amazon.com links from website	kjk	News	22	02-06-2010 02:10 PM
NPR story "Amazon Removes Books from Kindle"	rlparker	News	12	08-04-2009 02:21 PM

07-18-2009, 10:10 AM	#46
Gearhead Enthusiast Posts: 32 Karma: 45 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Kindle DX, PRS505	I think Amazon needs to work on their public relations. This wasn't a well thought out response by them regardless of the legality of the book they sold. The thought that Amazon can come in whenever they please and do as they like with my property is very disturbing. It feels like I'm just renting my DX. The landlord can come in and swap out the microwave while I'm at work, I get no say in the matter. Actually, Amazon isn't even as respectable as my last landlord, at least they would have stuck a note under my door letting me know that they needed to come in for maintenance. I've been keeping the wireless off on my Kindle unless I needed Amazon to sync books, mostly to save my Kindle's battery. I think now that I'll keep the wireless off for good....to save my privacy as well as the DRM'd books I'm renting from Amazon. -robert

07-18-2009, 10:35 AM	#48
Elfwreck Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,185 Karma: 25133758 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: SF Bay Area, California, USA Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3 (Past: Kobo Mini, PEZ, PRS-505, Clié)	Not having title to the IP rights doesn't mean you don't own that copy of a particular bit of IP. You don't own title or IP rights to a paperback book, but if a store discovers it's been selling bootlegged copies, they don't have the right to come into your house & reclaim the one they sold you.

07-18-2009, 11:16 AM	#52
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,966 Karma: 128903250 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	How many threads do we actually need to have about Amazon deleting illegally sold content from Kindles? And why is it that people are getting out of sorts on something that was the right thing to do? And why do you have a Kindle if you don't want Amazon to be able to get inside?

07-18-2009, 11:25 AM	#57
Stingo Fanatic Posts: 559 Karma: 1334691 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Miami Device: KH2O, KPW2, KDXG, KPW1, K3, S505	If this was not a wake up call to people nothing is. Every book that one buys from Amazon should be stripped of the DRM and personal archive copy in MOBI format should be kept by the owner. I believe that this is contemplated and allowed by law as long as you don't distribute the copy to others.

07-18-2009, 11:45 AM	#59
chaznsc Connoisseur Posts: 70 Karma: 32 Join Date: Jul 2009 Device: Mine	This is no longer a useful discussion. Both sides are dug in and points have been expressed. There would have to be a court(s) decision to take this to its ultimate decision.

07-18-2009, 12:06 PM	#60
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Yes, you're absolutely right. I shall say no more on the matter.