02-28-2012, 04:32 PM | #226 | |
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We have a winner! |
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02-28-2012, 04:40 PM | #227 | |
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"I don't want people to eat meat, and I don't want to ban meat-eating." "I don't want people to be fat, and I don't want to ban being fat." "I don't want my neighbors to have raggedy lawns and I don't want to pass a law requiring people to mow once a week." etc, etc. Perhaps we're hanging up on the issue of having personal moral opinions about our own activity and having moral desires regarding the functioning of society. I think both are fair and appropriate. I think it's okay to have moral desires about how society operates. Do you? |
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02-28-2012, 04:52 PM | #228 |
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Butting into the discussion-- what people read in the privacy of their own homes does not really apply to "how society operates." If they were posting passages from these books on billboards or reading them aloud on street corners you might have a point.
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02-28-2012, 05:05 PM | #229 |
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BINGO.
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02-28-2012, 05:06 PM | #230 | |
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And we're talking here about my earlier stated desire that these books did not exist (again, not a desire to ban or burn them, just a moral preference that they did not exist). Their creation and online distribution is certainly a societal issue as it intrinsically involves more than one person. |
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02-28-2012, 05:15 PM | #231 | |
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If I were to have societal desires, I suppose they would run VERY basic and look like this: * Do not ban anything that is victimless in nature * If some one is forced to do something against their will, they are a victim and a crime has been committed. * If some one is hurt by another, they are a victim. * If some one commits fraud against another, that person is a criminal and their target a victim. * If something does not affect you in ANY WAY, but you dislike it, it is your perogative to abstain from doing it. You are NOT a victim and neither is this magical construct called "society." But I would hardly argue those are societal desires. More like MY moral codes. And I certainly wouldn't force someone else to accept them, as most people tend to force "societal desires" given the power. That'd be quite hypocritical of me! |
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02-28-2012, 05:32 PM | #232 | |
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It is fiction. Pure and simple. It is someone's sexual fantasy. Fiction. As in Not True. As in False. As in "It didn't happen." People should butt out of other people's private lives unless someone is being hurt. No man is an island living unto himself. We all have DIFFERENCES - different thoughts, actions, feelings, behaviors. Once you start trying to assume you know what's best for someone that you are not raising...you've crossed the line. Do you think that most of the people here defending the right of these books are reading them? Not likely. But I will defend them to the death. Because I know what happens when people start to try to force their personal set of morals and behavior on others... ...it's the reason for the poor laws that forced women to place their children (HUNDREDS OF THEM) in baby farms to die and/or be forced into prostitution http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/194675503 ...it's the reason why blacks were not allowed to eat, sit or marry whites. ...it's the reason why people want to keep homosexuals from marrying. ...the list goes on and on. Now, I'm not saying that you don't have the right to not like this kind of work. I don't like it either, it's not my thing... But it does have the right to exist. |
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02-28-2012, 05:32 PM | #233 | |
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Known as the TV/Video/comic/Communist/Twinkie/Smashwords/PayPal defense. Did I miss anything? |
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02-28-2012, 05:41 PM | #234 | |
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Slippery slopes on both sides. |
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02-28-2012, 05:49 PM | #235 | |
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Yes, it is a tacit approval of people being allowed to read whatever the hell they want to read so long as they are not hurting anyone else through force or fraud. It's not slippery at all. Fictional events ARE NOT REAL. Oh, and implying I'm a (or support) pedophile, beastiali..st? , or incestor.. pretty much is dirty pool, and says a lot more about you than me. It also suggests that I'm done with you. Thanks for the implication. Last edited by Redcard; 02-28-2012 at 05:59 PM. |
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02-28-2012, 06:08 PM | #236 | |
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There are plenty of things I'd rather people didn't do. How does that become the same as saying that I want people to be banned from doing them? |
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02-28-2012, 06:13 PM | #237 | |
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And I guess I just gave away some of my reading interests with that remark. |
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02-28-2012, 06:26 PM | #238 | |
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Oh, hey, look at that: I own a mainstream paranormal fantasy book that has a throw-away line about paranormal, consensual bestial sex. Feel free to snub me now, all. |
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02-28-2012, 06:36 PM | #239 | |||
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Among my complaints about the new policy is that the categories are not defined... at what point does shapeshifter sex become "bestiality?" If the animal shape isn't one that exists on earth, is that "never?" (Is sex with a unicorn bestiality? Sex with a demon? A kiss shared with a talking frog that used to be a prince?) What's "incest?" Does it mean "sex between people not legal to marry in the US?" (Which varies a bit by state; we can assume it would mean California since that's where both PayPal and Smaswords are located.) Or do they have a broader definition of "incest" that has no relation to legal restrictions--do they allow cousin sex? (In CA, first cousins can marry.) Former-stepsibling sex after the parents divorce? Rape-for-titillation... WTF is that? Whose titillation is being talked about here... one character? Both characters? The reader's? Who decides if titillation has occurred? If this gets enforced, a huge section of the romance industry is going to be censored; there are countless books based on "he forces sex on her, but she loves it so much she comes to love him, and they eventually live happily ever after." (Yes, it's skeevy. But I don't think bookstores or payment processors should be deciding what's too skeevy for people to enjoy reading about. For a lot of women, it's nice to spend some time imagining it *could* happen that way, instead of being stuck with thinking about how rape *does* happen.) Underage erotica: this one presumably means "explicit sexual activity with at least one character under 18 years old," but as fanfic archives have discovered, it's not always that simple. Books, unlike real life, have situations that the law never has to deal with: characters with 6-year-old bodies and 100-year-old minds (Claudia from Interview With a Vampire; characters with human-adult bodies and children's minds (rescuees from Mirror Dance; characters who age much faster than humans (Kes in Star Trek: Voyager)... is erotica between two aliens who have 20-year-lifespans against PayPal's rules? Quote:
Last edited by Elfwreck; 02-28-2012 at 06:38 PM. |
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02-28-2012, 06:41 PM | #240 | |
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Will the "think of the chilllldrreennnn" censors allow me to ban books with biblical metaphors and references from school libraries? If not, they can stop deciding what's inappropriate for my kids to have access to; I will make those judgment calls myself. |
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