Ebook Piracy

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by mrkai

"How can this be fixed? I think what people are calling "social drm" is a good step (this allows for more "playback" options and helps honest people stay that way), the $9.99 Amazon price (tho I think $7.99 would be the "killer price point"), and the addition of allowing buyers to print one copy of the book (paralleling the m4a -> cd that Apple does)."

Don't overlook the fact that most of us have seen a dramatic fall in the price of eBooks (which most stores sell in US$) due to the fact that the value of the US$ has fallen through the floor in the last year compared to most other currencies. Eg, for many years, the £:$ exchange rate was about £1 = $1.60; today it's £1 = $2. That means that anything priced in US$ is now 25% cheaper than it used to be.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I've already done that... my business model is out there, and working (for me, anyway). What should be discussed is, how to make e-book publishers take the leap of faith into non-DRM'd publishing and prices that the market clearly feels are fair, as well as how to get e-book "pirates" to shop in legitimate sources and abandon "illegally obtained" e-book sources.

Most pirated ebooks are actually books that are not legally available as ebooks. So the answer to that is to publish ALL new books as ebooks and that would stop most of the problems.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Most pirated ebooks are actually books that are not legally available as ebooks. So the answer to that is to publish ALL new books as ebooks and that would stop most of the problems.

Once again, Jon, you propose sweeping, simplistic and rational solutions to complex, vague and highly litigitous issues. STOP DOING THAT!!! You KNOW the Publishing Industry is Always Right and the Customer is Always Wrong!

Derek

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Most pirated ebooks are actually books that are not legally available as ebooks. So the answer to that is to publish ALL new books as ebooks and that would stop most of the problems.

Let me propose a question. When Harry Potter 7 was released, we saw a lot of people on this forum piously proclaim that of course the only reason they were reading a illegal copy of this book was that it wasn't available as an legal e-Book.

Suppose Ms. Rowling were to have a change of heart and permit all 7 HP books to be released as e-Books. What proportion of the people who have illegal copies of them do you believe would buy the legal versions?

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Suppose Ms. Rowling were to have a change of heart and permit all 7 HP books to be released as e-Books. What proportion of the people who have illegal copies of them do you believe would buy the legal versions?

If you consider books like food, that is something you read and throw away why should you buy a new book of something you already have read?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by tompe

If you consider books like food, that is something you read and throw away why should you buy a new book of something you already have read?

Sure, but a lot of people consider books to be something to keep, and re-read later... if they're good. Many of those would conceivably want to buy a legitimate e-book, especially if it was better formatted and edited than a pirated copy, or if it included some added value, like pictures or glossaries, etc. (Whether a Rowling book is worth keeping, by that reckoning, is up to you.)

Jon, not that I'm questioning you, but is there any substantiated evidence of your suggestion? Having a source of evidence wouldn't hurt. For the publishers, though, I believe it's simply a lack of desire to spend the extra time (and money) to convert e-books, without a reliable expectation of return on investment, that is keeping them out of the market. So, even though there is piracy that they could nip in the bud with their own legit e-books, they don't consider it worth the investment to them to do so. Maybe success in the Kindle market will change that opinion.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Let me propose a question. When Harry Potter 7 was released, we saw a lot of people on this forum piously proclaim that of course the only reason they were reading a illegal copy of this book was that it wasn't available as an legal e-Book.

Suppose Ms. Rowling were to have a change of heart and permit all 7 HP books to be released as e-Books. What proportion of the people who have illegal copies of them do you believe would buy the legal versions?

To be honest, I don't see all that many people going out and purchasing a electronic copy should a legal copy be available. But I can see people purchasing a legal copy should one have been released at the time the pbook was released.

Once the money is spent on the pbook, a lot of people don't think twice about owning the ebook. They thing that "I've paid for the content so why pay twice". But if the ebook comes out at the same time as the pbook, then people have a choice as to which to purchase. There are some books I might purchase as pbooks and some I'd purchase as ebooks. But I would have the choice to make.

A lot of the ebooks available on the darknet are books that were/are not legally available in electronic form. The need for people to scan ebooks would greatly diminish if the books were already available.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Sure, but a lot of people consider books to be something to keep, and re-read later... if they're good. Many of those would conceivably want to buy a legitimate e-book, especially if it was better formatted and edited than a pirated copy, or if it included some added value, like pictures or glossaries, etc. (Whether a Rowling book is worth keeping, by that reckoning, is up to you.)

Sure, I re-read a lot of books. I just wanted to point out that the question was maybe a bit misleading. I think the availability factor is important. Some books you need to read a a certain time to participate in the discussion of the book. So in a sense there i a timedependent experience that you can miss.

And some books as for exemple price nominated books you might loose the interest to read after the voting if the books are bad.

For TV series and if you not live in the US and want to watch them without having seen spoilers and or if you want to participate in forums about the series you have to download them in any way they are available.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Hopefully, as we become more of a "global village," some of these geography-restricted factors and time-dependent factors might be removed, and that will help remove the "need" to pirate e-books for people who presently have limited access to the same books. (If it happens, dealing with global price and copyright differentials will have to be addressed next.)

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

To be honest, I don't see all that many people going out and purchasing a electronic copy should a legal copy be available. But I can see people purchasing a legal copy should one have been released at the time the pbook was released.

Once the money is spent on the pbook, a lot of people don't think twice about owning the ebook. They thing that "I've paid for the content so why pay twice". But if the ebook comes out at the same time as the pbook, then people have a choice as to which to purchase. There are some books I might purchase as pbooks and some I'd purchase as ebooks. But I would have the choice to make.

A lot of the ebooks available on the darknet are books that were/are not legally available in electronic form. The need for people to scan ebooks would greatly diminish if the books were already available.

Not buying the content twice opens the door for an interesting marketing model. You always sell the pbook and throw in the ebook. The addition of DRM is ok since you always have the pbook to fall back on. Perhaps you order the pbook and then pre-download the ebook.

Dale

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Not buying the content twice opens the door for an interesting marketing model. You always sell the pbook and throw in the ebook. The addition of DRM is ok since you always have the pbook to fall back on. Perhaps you order the pbook and then pre-download the ebook.

Although I don't see this as a bad model, the only issue related to this that I see (from a publisher's standpoint) is that the p-book will be considered to be of less value if the user also gets an e-book. Also, the p-book can be resold, etc, immediately after you buy it and download the e-book... publishers will hate the implications of that.

Result: Publishers will surely raise the price of the p-book/e-book combination, possibly even doubling the p-book cost.

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Suppose Ms. Rowling were to have a change of heart and permit all 7 HP books to be released as e-Books. What proportion of the people who have illegal copies of them do you believe would buy the legal versions?

I already have legal versions.

But if you mean legal ebook versions, it would depend on the cost. I have most of mine in hardcover, and three of those in Canadian editions printed on recycled paper, which I paid extra for. If I could cover the cost of the ebooks by selling my pbooks secondhand, I might do it. They do take up a lot of shelf space, as big as they are, and though I re-read them occasionally, I'm the only one in the family who does, so they might as well be ebooks.

Not in locked formats, though.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Suppose Ms. Rowling were to have a change of heart and permit all 7 HP books to be released as e-Books. What proportion of the people who have illegal copies of them do you believe would buy the legal versions?

I think the very nature of people who would download an illegal copy of an e-book in the first place would, in most cases, preclude them from feeling they need to pay for a legal version later. In other words, most of them will find some way to rationalize a reason to not bother, just as they rationalized a reason for knowingly taking the illegal e-book.

There have also been comments as to how some reason that possessing the printed book means they have a right to a free e-book (and, by extension, possessing a hardback gives them a right to a free paperback. I'm still trying to figure out that one.).

[MaggieScratch]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Let me propose a question. When Harry Potter 7 was released, we saw a lot of people on this forum piously proclaim that of course the only reason they were reading a illegal copy of this book was that it wasn't available as an legal e-Book.

Suppose Ms. Rowling were to have a change of heart and permit all 7 HP books to be released as e-Books. What proportion of the people who have illegal copies of them do you believe would buy the legal versions?

*raises hand*

Nicely formatted digital versions without all the OCR errors? Yes please. I'll keep my hardback copies, too. Most real Potterheads I know own multiple copies of all seven novels--hardback, paperback, British editions, adult editions, audiobooks, etc. I used to want the British "adult editions" but I think now I'd rather have the digital editions.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Suppose Ms. Rowling were to have a change of heart and permit all 7 HP books to be released as e-Books. What proportion of the people who have illegal copies of them do you believe would buy the legal versions?

Doesn't that assume the people with the illegal copies would agree the legit copies were worth the asking price?
HP7 wasn't worth what I paid for it .