Signalling needed properties for EPUB3

[kovidgoyal]

@dgatwood It is perfectly possible to create fixed layout EPUB (2 or 3) files from which text cannot be copied and pasted. All it needs is to layout text on a character by character basis with absolute positioning. That is *exactly* equivalent to creating a PDF file with this problem.

[bentleymaniac]

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

Fortunately, the IDPF saw the error of their ways for EPUB 3.1

Obviously, while eink ereaders keep using epub2, there is probaly no need, but are the changes implemented in epub3.1 good enough to warrant including it in Calibre?

[kovidgoyal]

Originally Posted by bentleymaniac

Obviously, while eink ereaders keep using epub2, there is probaly no need, but are the changes implemented in epub3.1 good enough to warrant including it in Calibre?

EPUB 3.1 is not finalised yet -- and no, I dont see anything in it that makes it worth implementing support for. They basically just get rid of most of the metadata properties they created in EPUB 3 and specify that EPUB is meant to be rendered in browsers so the relevant spec becomes HTML 5. Basically, they declare their own irrelevance.

[lekofraggle]

Hello,
I am an English teacher with some programming experience, and I am incredibly interested in this thread. I have a question, but let me share my goal first.

<Background info...> I began using apple'store iBooks Author to make my class curriculum accessible to all of my students. My goal was to make my books interactive. My first book (The Odyssey) was a huge undertaking, but I created a beta that worked quite well. Then, I started piloting our chromebook program, and much of my literature was flattened again due to lack of cross platform support for iBooks. </Background info...>

So, I have been searching for a way to create a cross-platform, interactive and accessible textbook. I have a copy of indesign, so that can help me author, but I was thinking epub3 was my solution.

So, my surprise... "epub 2 is the same as epub 3" I thought this was not true, and here is why... epub3 supports...
Html5 Web applets
Embedded svg graphics
Embedded video and audio
Interactive slide shows (svg?)
Fixed and reflowable text <-- I think epub2 does this...
Embedded internal and external links that display in a pop-up
And possibly image associated table of contents

My questions are...
How much of my assumptions above are accurate and unique to epub3?
If I am wrong, what format would you recommend?
How do you best recommend creating one?
If even half of the above assumptions are accurate and unique to epub 3, is that not enough to warrant making the shift from epub2 to epub3?

I just got back from ISTE, and few people (even Google representatives) recognized this issue (lack of truly accessible book formatso that are universal), or could help me in my journey to find a solution.

~Jacob

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by lekofraggle

So, I have been searching for a way to create a cross-platform, interactive and accessible textbook. I have a copy of indesign, so that can help me author, but I was thinking epub3 was my solution.

@lekofraggle - you might want to also check out the ePub and Sigil forums for further discussion on ePub3. And I seem to recall that MR member 'fbrzvnrnd' has posted on several occasions on the issue of creating interactive books with ePUB3.

BR

[gcollier]

I'm only a user, not a developer. So here is my encouragement towards Epub3: Ingram Spark requires it of Ebooks. Since I use that service, I need that capability. I downloaded Calibre and like it. But it won't do what I need. Just two days ago (Oct 30 2016) Sigil released 0.9.7 and says it will do Epub 2 & 3. So I'm leaving Calibre behind. Maybe if it is updated I'll come back. I appreciate the work and that you have to make decisions about where to spend your time.

Thanks.
Gary

[kovidgoyal]

Umm the calibre editor -- the part of calibre that corresponds to Sigil has "done" EPUB 3 for months, at least at the level Sigil does it.

[nabsltd]

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

The only thing in EPUB 3 that does not work in EPUB 2 is the new metadata.

Actually, if you have HTML in your EPUB that is 100% compliant with the appropriate standard (EPUB2 or EPUB3), then EPUB2 loses support for CSS 3, and at least some HTML.

But, most EPUB2 readers use an HTML/CSS renderer that can handle the features that are technically only EPUB3-compliant, so for real-world reading, there isn't really much difference. You can convert an EPUB3 to EPUB2 and have it render the same on most readers. But, you can't have an EPUB2 as a source that has those features. So, EPUB3 in ebooks is a good thing, but having Calibre support it other than to be able to convert to EPUB2 isn't worth the programming time.

[gcollier]

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

Umm the calibre editor -- the part of calibre that corresponds to Sigil has "done" EPUB 3 for months, at least at the level Sigil does it.

Well this is good news to me. I admit to being a brand new user--as of 3 days ago, so I am happy to be corrected. Now, if you can show me how to find in Calibre where the EPub is 3.0 or 3.1, that will be terrific. (1) I have not found that or anything relating to that in the help material--and it would be very helpful from my dumb user point of view if that were added to the help material. (2) Plus, when I validate my Calibre EPub through the site validator.idpf.org, that site shows it as an EPub 2.0. (It rendered a Sigil EPub as 3.1.) And what that means is that IngramSpark won't accept my Calibre EPub. I'm not saying who is better or any such thing. The bottom line is whether IngramSpark will accept it. I have no skin in this game of who is technically right or justified about this, only whether it will be accepted as an EPub3 or 3.1. Frankly, I would rather use Calibre. But I can't if it won't show up as an EPub 3 or 3.1. I'll gladly be corrected again.

[kovidgoyal]

Open the OPF file, in the top couple of lines look for version="2.0" change it to version="3.0" or "3.1" or whatever you need. Save your book. If you are starting from an EPUB 2.0 source file, then you will likely also need to run the Table of Contents tool to generate a nav file or create one by hand. Someday I might get around to making a button to automate those changes.

[oston]

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

If I add support for epub 3, check book will naturally check epub 3 specific structures. Though I have yet to see any reason to adopt epub 3 beyond "it exists".

Here is a reason to support Epub3 in Calibre. Fixed Layout epubs are only in the Epub 3 specification. Many of the ebooks I make for friends and others are fixed layout epub 3 files and Calibre does not display a FXL epub with a 2 page spread.

Also it will not convert a FXL epub3 into other formats.

But many thanks for Calibre. It's great with reflowable epubs

[kovidgoyal]

Why on earth would you make fixed layout epubs? Just use PDF. And if calibre ever did support fixed layout epubs (which is highly unlikely) it would do so regardless of epub versions.

[oston]

Because there is a very limited number of outlets where you can sell a PDF. epubs are much easier to market.
One book I was asked to make included text that displayed at different times after page open. This is much easier to do in a fixed layout epub than in a PDF where javascripts would be needed.
But I do not expect these reasons to be convincing
Best wishes
Jim

[eschwartz]

There is a limited number of outlets where you can sell EPUB3 or FXL...

[nabsltd]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

There is a limited number of outlets where you can sell EPUB3 or FXL...

That may be, but for new release books, nearly all EPUBs that I have downloaded from libraries in the last month have been EPUB3. I'm only referring to true new releases (first time published in any form)...not first release in eBook.