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Old 12-05-2018, 11:47 AM   #16
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@Doitsu...

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowsmile View Post
What? If I submit a KFX file, entirely created by Kindle software where every page is a jpeg image, you're saying that if it fails Enhanced Typsetting then Amazon will automatically convert my KFX

I've never said this. You might want to re-read my post.


Yes, unfortunately, you did say it. Here it is again with some emphasis:

"If the epub/mobi file supports Enhanced Typesetting, Amazon will convert it to a KFX file, if the device/app supports it. If the green check mark is missing, users will get at most AZW3 files."

And as I've already mentioned, if you run a Kindle check like ET on a KFX file that has been successfully generated by Kindle software(Kindle Create) then why should it fail?

Last edited by slowsmile; 12-05-2018 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 12-05-2018, 12:51 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by slowsmile View Post
@Doitsu...

[/I]

Yes, unfortunately, you did say it. Here it is again with some emphasis:

"If the epub/mobi file supports Enhanced Typesetting, Amazon will convert it to a KFX file, if the device/app supports it. If the green check mark is missing, users will get at most AZW3 files."

And as I've already mentioned, if you run a Kindle check like ET on a KFX file that has been successfully generated by Kindle software(Kindle Create) then why should it fail?
William, you are mixing apples and oranges. Doits never said what you're trying to imply he said, through a tortured construction. Where you are going off the tracks is when you ignore the first part of his sentence, which said:

Quote:
"If the epub/mobi file supports Enhanced Typesetting,..."
He very obviously was not talking about KPF files, which is the output format of Kindle Create and the other DIY-applications (Kindle Textbook Creator, etc.). KPF is a proprietary, relatively useless format, owned by Amazon, that is an interim step in the Word-->"Kindle eBook" process. Unlike ePUB or MOBI, it's not a standalone format--you can't load it to any device, and read it. You can't make an ePUB by its lonesome, I mean, sans helpful plugins and the like). It's (apparently) deliberately constructed, much like Apple's iBooks app, to keep the user in the Amazon walled garden of content creation and distribution. (And don't get me started about what's under the surface!)

But enough about the realities of KPF/KFX. The point is, Doits was correctly discussing what happens, in KP, KG, etc., with either ePUB or MOBI input content. He was NOT discussing KPF files. While I suppose it's possible that a KPF file might be useful for Gregg, in his travels and travails, it's hardly a "format" that I'd expect to see discussed here on MR very much, as it's basically a Word template that creates a straightjacket that's not very usable.

And lastly, that's not what was being discussed here, anyway. I don't understand why you had Gregg buy your book, since it has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with what he's trying to do here, which is use your image plugin to manage his cover images in his backmatter, in the ePUB he's converting to MOBI (KF8). That's all that's being queried here. Nothing about KFX.

I realize that you've established yourself as an expert on KPF and KindleCreate on the Amazon Forums, but that is not what was being asked about here, not even remotely.

Oh, and lastly, Doits is correct--if you load a valid ePUB or MOBI to KP3, and it will display the green checkmark if the file will be subsequently converted to KFX (for reflowable Enhanced Typesetting, for regular, reflowable ePUB/MOBI files, or for FXL). And, of course, a KFX file will not be delivered to those devices that can't support it. (Like my Trusty K2).

Nothing has changed in the "Chinese Menu" world of what happens, post the PW (Publishing Workflow). The file is rendered into myriad formats, from KF8 (AZW) to KF7 to now, KFX. And whatever the hell is getting delivered to iOS these days. The correct file is then delivered to the requested device, when the user indicates which device is going to be used for viewing the requested book. That's still the same.

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Old 12-05-2018, 08:29 PM   #18
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Hi Hitch...

Quote:
"If the epub/mobi file supports Enhanced Typesetting,..."

He very obviously was not talking about KPF files, which is the output format of Kindle Create and the other DIY-applications (Kindle Textbook Creator, etc.).
Yes, I would certainly agree with you about the above. But, unfortunately, in my original post before Doitsu's critical post, I was solely talking about KFX generated as a KPF file by Kindle Create. I was trying to convince Gregg not to go the KFX route using Kindle Create because of all the horrific downsides of generating and using such a file. And then both you and Doitsu decided to introduce all sorts of other points which were, quite frankly, completely off-point and irrelevant to my original post, which only describes the pros and cons of generating a KFX file using Kindle Create.

And I still believe that Enhanced Typesetting really has no relevance at all for a KC-generated KFX(as a KPF file) that only ever consists of page-sized jpeg images without any text. As well, why would Kindle Previewer's Enhanced Typesetting pick a fight and fail on a KPF file that has also been entirely generated using Kindle software(via Kindle Create)? As far as I'm concerned, so far there have been no convincing arguments from anyone to refute anything that I've said either in my original post or in this paragraph.


"I don't understand why you had Gregg buy your book, since it has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with what he's trying to do here, which is use your image plugin to manage his cover images in his backmatter, in the ePUB he's converting to MOBI (KF8). "

Gregg didn't buy my book. It's a free download.

Last edited by slowsmile; 12-05-2018 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 12-05-2018, 09:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowsmile View Post
Hi Hitch...



Yes, I would agree with you about the above. But, unfortunately, in my original post before Doitsu's critical post, I was solely talking about a KFX file generated as a KPF file by Kindle Create. I was trying to convince Gregg not to go the KFX route using Kindle Create because of all the horrific downsides of generating and using such a file.

I still believe that Enhanced Typesetting really has no relevance at all for a KC-generated KFX file that only ever consists of page-sized jpeg images with no text. As well, why would Kindle Previewer's Enhanced Typesetting pick a fight and fail on a KPF file that has been generated from a pdf that also uses Kindle software? As far as I'm concerned, there have been no convincing arguments from anyone to refute anything that I've said in this last paragraph.
William:

Are you trying to say that you think if Jane Doe uses KC, for her Word file (let's say a novel, for the ease of discussion) that her final KFX file is jpgs? Pages that are jpgs of text?

Or am I not understanding you?

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Old 12-05-2018, 10:16 PM   #20
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@Hitch...

"Are you trying to say that you think if Jane Doe uses KC, for her Word file (let's say a novel, for the ease of discussion) that her final KFX file is jpgs? Pages that are jpgs of text?"

No. If you load Kindle Create with a Word doc, as you've described above, then you will always get a reflowable ebook -- not a KFX ebook. In such a reflowable ebook all text will not be represented as images but will be formatted as html text.

But if you load a PDF into Kindle Create you will get a KFX ebook. This only applies to a KPF file generated from a PDF by Kindle Create or Kindle Text Book Creator. In such a file every text page is a max-page-size jpeg image with no embedded html text.

I also used JP Howell's KFX Input plugin with Calibre. I converted both a KPF file(as KFX) and another KPF file(as a reflowable ebook) to epub format and had a look. This also seems to confirm what I've said above.

Last edited by slowsmile; 12-05-2018 at 11:47 PM.
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Old 12-06-2018, 12:29 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by slowsmile View Post
@Hitch...

"Are you trying to say that you think if Jane Doe uses KC, for her Word file (let's say a novel, for the ease of discussion) that her final KFX file is jpgs? Pages that are jpgs of text?"

No. If you load Kindle Create with a Word doc, as you've described above, then you will always get a reflowable ebook -- not a KFX ebook. In such a reflowable ebook all text will not be represented as images but will be formatted as html text.
William, I am 99% sure that's wrong. When you load KC with a Word file, and build an eBook therefrom, you'll get a KFX file. A reflowable KFX, yes, but a KFX file nonetheless.

Quote:
But if you load a PDF into Kindle Create you will get a KFX ebook. This only applies to a KPF file generated from a PDF by Kindle Create or Kindle Text Book Creator. In such a file every text page is a max-page-size jpeg image with no embedded html text.
Yes, and I agree here that you get Print Replica from a PDF-->KC or KTC process. And yes, that's essentially images of text.

Quote:
I also used JP Howell's KFX Input plugin with Calibre. I converted both a KPF file(as KFX) and another KPF file(as a reflowable ebook) to epub format and had a look. This also seems to confirm what I've said above.
I freely admit, I don't use KC. No interest in it, as it's a...well, to my eyes, a lesser process for the building of ebooks, and the code is godawful. But I feel that there's a logic piece missing here.

If you build a reflowable ebook in KFX format, from a KC Word file (for a typical, reflowable eBook) you should get a pretty normal ePUB, right? Albeit one with the icky coding. But it's STILL a KFX file.

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Old 12-06-2018, 02:38 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by slowsmile View Post
@Hitch...

"Are you trying to say that you think if Jane Doe uses KC, for her Word file (let's say a novel, for the ease of discussion) that her final KFX file is jpgs? Pages that are jpgs of text?"

No. If you load Kindle Create with a Word doc, as you've described above, then you will always get a reflowable ebook -- not a KFX ebook. In such a reflowable ebook all text will not be represented as images but will be formatted as html text.

William, I am 99% sure that's wrong. When you load KC with a Word file, and build an eBook therefrom, you'll get a KFX file. A reflowable KFX, yes, but a KFX file nonetheless.


All I know is what I've seen and discovered while testing KPF outputs from Kindle Create. To me KFX means "Kindle's own proprietary version of fixed format." I also think that KFX outcomes are bad -- way too many downsides as you yourself have said elsewhere. To me, KFX(KPF created with a PDF) isn't even worth considering -- it's the bogey-man that will lead you unknowingly down the road to a very poor upload result on KDP.

However, creating a reflowable KPF file using a Word doc is a different story. KC is the only app I know that allows the user to both format and convert their Word doc to a Kindle ebook with no need of any html knowledge. This route will also give you an ebook that has at least some individualized interior styling. Whereas if you upload a Word doc directly to KDP then all you get, in terms of interior styling, is a single font clone whose interior styling looks exactly like 5 million other ebooks on Amazon.

I've also found that converting a reflowable KPF file(created from a Word doc) to epub format using JP Howell's excellent KFX Input plugin for Calibre to be quick and easy, with minimal cleanup or additional formatting needed to pass muster with Epubcheck. This also dispels the rather wearisome complaint that you can only ever upload a KPF file to KDP. If you can convert that KPF file to epub then, with only a little extra formatting, you should also be able to upload that epub to any epub retailer or aggregator without problems. And, being a dedicated epubber, this would always be my own preferred route.

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Old 12-06-2018, 07:18 AM   #23
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To me KFX means "Kindle's own proprietary version of fixed format."
That's probably where a lot of the confusion on this issue stems from. There is nothing about the KFX format that implies "fixed." It's just "Kindle Format 10" (much like the naming of KF8). KFX is still very much a reflowable format.
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Old 12-06-2018, 08:36 PM   #24
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In my own experience, a KPF file derived form Kindle Create is capable of producing a KPF file either as a reflowable ebook or in Kindle's proprietary fixed format, which is normally uploaded to Amazon as KFX. It then becomes a KF10. When someone purchases that ebook, it is then downloaded as a AZW file. The AZW file is the successor to AZW6 and, if you like , is just a DRMed version of the AZW3. So DiapDealer is more or less right, the downloaded ebook is strongly related to AZW3 and so, for all intents and purposes, it's a KF8 as well.

So how should we correctly refer to this KC-generated KPF file -- what should we call it? Should we refer to that Kindle Create file as KPF or KFX or KF10 or AZW or successor to AZW6 or almost an AZW3 or KF8??

Anyone confused?

Personally, I would much prefer to simplify everything and, for the sake of some much needed clarity, forget all the above crap and just call it a KPF file, because I can actually see that extension when the file is produced from Kindle Create so I know exactly what type of file I'm getting(which is the only thing that really matters to an indie pubisher). I'm now done with this discussion.

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Old 12-06-2018, 08:50 PM   #25
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You're conflating formats and file extensions.
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Old 12-06-2018, 11:04 PM   #26
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Gregg...

"Hi Bill, I downloaded the book. Thanks. As far as I can tell though, when I upload to KDP, it distributes whatever file format will work on the devices, including KFX."

No, KDP will not automatically convert your reflowable ebook to KFX format on conversion, if that's what you're saying above. You have to upload your ebook specifically in KFX format and this will result in only KFX distribution on Kindle devices that can handle it.

You should also consider that KFX format(as a .kpf file) will NOT work on mobile phones or older Kindle E-ink devices(i.e.KF7). So, do you really want to upload your ebook in KFX format with those somewhat severe customer restrictions? And if your KFX ebook is over 20 pages in length, do you really want to lose ALL your ebook profit while using Amazon's 70% profit option?

"So is it the kind of thing that you (as a professional) can choose whether to use KFX but I (as a writer just uploading to KDP) can not?"

Whether you decide to use KFX format is really up to you as the indie publisher. Converting to KFX using KC is very easy -- you don't need any html knowledge to convert your book to KFX format using Kindle Create. All you do is just choose the KFX book type, then load a pdf version of your ebook into Kindle Create and it will automatically be converted to KFX format(as a .kpf file) for you to upload. But you should really take heed of all the many KFX downsides that I've mentioned in my book before you consider publishing a KFX ebook. If you already write and publish mainly text heavy reflowable epub 2 ebooks, there should really be no reason or need for you to publish in KFX format.

In my book, if you go to Chapter 1 > Pros and cons of loading a PDF in Kindle Create this section should help to dissuade you from ever using KFX format.
Hi Bill. Thanks very much for the explanation. I do, however, feel like I'm getting thoroughly over my head with this stuff.

I'm on a Linux computer so I don't have access to Kindle Create. What I do is just make my epub in Sigil. I lose the html cover, drop the .epub on Kindlegen 2.9 and then upload the resulting .mobi to KDP. That's it.

In terms of not being able to get a KFX format for my books, (unless I'm misunderstanding, which is likely) I just looked at one of my ebooks (made in the method described above) and on Amazon's Kindle Store (on the product display page) the book had "Enhanced Typesetting Enabled" and I thought that was an indication that the book had a KFX file (as well as KF8). Is that not the case?
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Old 12-06-2018, 11:09 PM   #27
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You're mistaken. If you generate a valid reflowable epub and open it with Kindle Previewer, it'll clearly indicate whether Amazon KDP will be able to convert it to an Enhanced Typesetting (KFX) file for all devices that support them.



If the epub/mobi file supports Enhanced Typesetting, Amazon will convert it to a KFX file, if the device/app supports it. If the green check mark is missing, users will get at most AZW3 files.


@Gregg Bell The command line version of the jhowell's KFX converter can fix some common issues that would otherwise prevent books from being converted to KFX files, if you add the --clean parameter.
Thanks Doitsu. I looked at that jhowell's post (on the KFX conversion). Wow, what a post! I'm just soaking all this in now.

PS. Yes, I'm exclusively Sigil.

Last edited by Gregg Bell; 12-06-2018 at 11:11 PM. Reason: added Sigil note
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:11 AM   #28
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@Doitsu...My apologies to you for doubting what you said about "Enhanced Typsetting" enabling KFX. I've just re-read JP Howell's post which does confirm that when "Enhanced Typsetting" is enabled then this effectively means that KFX is also enabled as you said. Notably, when I went to Kindle Jumpstart's Enhanced Typsetting description page, there was no mention of KFX conversion being enabled when "Enhanced Typsetting" is enabled. Hence my doubt and my confusion over this.

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Old 12-07-2018, 12:30 AM   #29
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@Gregg...If you're unsure of whether your published epubs have KFX enabled then you should just run your original, uploaded epub versions through Kindle Previewer 3(KP3). And if those epubs have "Enhanced Typsetting" enabled in KP3 then they will be converted and displayed as KFX on any Kindle ereader that can currently handle KFX. Here is a general list of Kindle ereaders that can handle KFX:

* Kindle E-readers 6th generation and newer
* Fire tablets 3rd generation and newer
* Kindle for iOS v4.9 or newer (iOS Versions: iOS 7, iOS 8 and iOS 9)
* Kindle for Android v4.18.0 or newer (Android Versions: Jelly Bean, KitKat, Lollipop, and Marshmallow)
Source: KJ Enhanced Typsetting

If you can't run KP3 on your Linux computer then here's another idea. If you've already purchased and downloaded author copies of all your ebooks and downloaded them onto your Kindle reader(s) -- which must also have KFX capability(see list above) -- then just find the actual book file on your Kindle Tablet and check if it has a ".azw" or ".azw3" extension. If your ebook has the ".azw" extension then it has been converted to KFX. But if it has the ".azw3" extension then it will be formatted as KF8.

Last edited by slowsmile; 12-07-2018 at 05:13 AM.
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:16 AM   #30
Hitch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowsmile View Post
@Gregg...If you're unsure of whether your published epubs have KFX enabled then you should just run your original, uploaded epub versions through Kindle Previewer 3(KP3). And if those epubs have "Enhanced Typsetting" enabled in KP3 then they will be converted and displayed as KFX on any Kindle ereader that can currently handle KFX. Here is a general list of Kindle ereaders that can handle KFX:

* Kindle E-readers 6th generation and newer
* Fire tablets 3rd generation and newer
* Kindle for iOS v4.9 or newer (iOS Versions: iOS 7, iOS 8 and iOS 9)
* Kindle for Android v4.18.0 or newer (Android Versions: Jelly Bean, KitKat, Lollipop, and Marshmallow)
Source: KJ Enhanced Typsetting

If you can't run KP3 on your Linux computer then here's another idea. If you've already purchased and downloaded author copies of all your ebooks and downloaded them onto your Kindle reader(s) -- which must also have KFX capability(see list above) -- then just find the actual book file on your Kindle Tablet and check if it has a ".azw" or ".azw3" extension. If your ebook has the ".azw" extension then it has been converted to KFX. But if it has the ".azw3" extension then it will be formatted as KF8.
Not to oversimplify things, but he can also simply upload an ePUB at KDP, and then download the resulting MOBI. Granted, it's cumbersome, but it does work.

And if he has KP2.9xx, that method still works, too; drag an ePUB onto it and it will convert. Or, there's always Kindlegen, which is still lurking around someplace; we use it in batches, yet, here.

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