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Old 12-06-2018, 01:11 PM   #61
GlennD
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I don't think most people pirating material worry about justification of it. They just do it.
Oh, no. They justify it. I used to justify it when ebooks were entirely fan-scanned - it's not stealing if the product doesn't exist to be purchased, right? And hey, if I only download books I have physical copies of, then it's really just saving me time from scanning them myself, not stealing.

i've mended my ways, but trust me, pirates totally justify their behavior.
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Old 12-06-2018, 01:56 PM   #62
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Oh, no. They justify it. I used to justify it when ebooks were entirely fan-scanned - it's not stealing if the product doesn't exist to be purchased, right? And hey, if I only download books I have physical copies of, then it's really just saving me time from scanning them myself, not stealing.

i've mended my ways, but trust me, pirates totally justify their behavior.
When I consider the time and effort I spent converting some of my DT books to ebook format, I could buy most ebooks for far less. I did not consider it theft in any form -- I was simply converting from one format to another a book that I already owned. No different other than the amount of time and skill involved than converting an epub to an azw3 to allow reading it on a Kindle.
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Old 12-06-2018, 02:10 PM   #63
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i've mended my ways, but trust me, pirates totally justify their behavior.
Yep.

Not enough money
Knowledge should be free
I already paid for a physical copy
They won't sell it to me
I was never going to pay for it regardless, so no lost sale

Yada, yada, yada...
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Old 12-06-2018, 02:19 PM   #64
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Oh, no. They justify it.
Some justify it. The vocal minority. I'm just saying there are far more pirates out there than there are people arguing the morality of it.

I still do empathize with the fan-scanned argument, personally.
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Old 12-06-2018, 07:33 PM   #65
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Some attempt to justify. I suspect these are in the majority. Some acknowledge it is wrong but do it anyway.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:10 AM   #66
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Stated or unstated, the rationale is always the same: "I want that, I'll take it."
Everything else is dressing.
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Old 12-07-2018, 11:04 AM   #67
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Stated or unstated, the rationale is always the same: "I want that, I'll take it."
That's kind of what I was getting at.

The average person that downloads stuff (movies, music, books, whatever) doesn't rationalize it at all. They just do it.

the biggest source of piracy I'm aware of is streaming movies. I know people at work that do it. They don't offer any rationalizations.
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Old 12-07-2018, 11:05 AM   #68
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They don't offer any rationalizations.
Then no one has asked them why they do it. When confronted with the notion that it's "wrong," very few will merely say, "so" and walk away. They immediately turn to the, "yeah, but..."

Last edited by DiapDealer; 12-07-2018 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 12-07-2018, 11:37 AM   #69
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Then no one has asked them why they do it. When confronted with the notion that it's "wrong," very few will merely say, "so" and walk away. They immediately turn to the, "yeah, but..."
Based on what evidence?

"So?" and walk away (or turn back to their tasks) has been my experience. Maybe Houston has a larger portion of jerks? But I'd say my sample size of my coworkers and father-in-law is just as representative as anyone else's here is.
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:15 PM   #70
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Based on what evidence?
Every illegal downloader I ever challenged on the subject (friends, work, bar, parties, online...). Every one offered some sort of justification. Anecdotal? You bet. But 100% of that decent-sized sampling is enough to convince me that it's fairly representative of the whole. It's fine if it doesn't convince you.
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:24 PM   #71
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Every illegal downloader I ever challenged on the subject (friends, work, bar, parties, online...). Every one offered some sort of justification. Anecdotal? You bet. But 100% of that decent-sized sampling is enough to convince me that it's fairly representative of the whole. It's fine if it doesn't convince you.
So far, it's a 50/50 split

I know there are voices in online forums that make the case for piracy. But my experience in the real world is that people just don't care enough to worry about the justification, even in their own minds.
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:34 PM   #72
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But my experience in the real world is that people just don't care enough to worry about the justification
Our experiences in the real world differ wildly. *shrug*

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even in their own minds.
In all fairness ... you are utterly unqualified to make that assertion. As is anyone who isn't a mind-reader.
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:42 PM   #73
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In all fairness ... you are utterly unqualified to make that assertion. As is anyone who isn't a mind-reader.
For purposes of this conversation I can only say that I am as qualified to make my assertions as you are to make yours. Both are equally factual.
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:07 PM   #74
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For purposes of this conversation I can only say that I am as qualified to make my assertions as you are to make yours. Both are equally factual.
Well I'm sufficiently satisfied that the assertion that requires mind-reading is slightly less factual than the ones that don't.
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:13 PM   #75
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Well I'm sufficiently satisfied that the assertion that requires mind-reading is slightly less factual than the ones that don't.
As John Lennon said, "whatever gets you through the night."
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