New Chapter on Digital Reading (Sony) - Page 3

Scythe · 09-09-2008, 10:04 AM

HarryT is completely spot on. The beauty with eInk is that the only CPU work being done is the original rendering of the image to the screen, then it goes into standby. The processor goes into "hibernation" where it can remain for many many days and the page will stay continually on the screen with very minuscule power drain.

Also, the screen on an eInk display only needs power upon picture change. Hence why you get that slightly annoying flicker on page change. It wipes the screen (per se), and then displays the new rendering. It's very similar to an etch-a-sketch.

With LCD it has to display constantly, at a high refresh rate to even maintain something close to the eInk display. Enjoy that 5 hour battery time

You can compare it to your mobile phone. Does your LCD stay on for days at a time, or does it go to sleep?

khourianya · 09-09-2008, 10:14 AM

Maybe sony will release support for Kindle format in a revolutionary alliance with Amazon and Amazon will allow their content to be available worldwide!

Ya - I know. DREAMING. But wouldn't that be amazing in terms of available content?

What about a wifi dongle that could be plugged into the min-USB allowing you to port from Mac/PC and (dare I dream) Linux? I don't need the ability to buy anywhere anytime...that woul dbe financially ruinous for me - but to be able to transfer would be great.

CommanderROR · 09-09-2008, 10:18 AM

Sony need not go for kindle books, they could go for mobipocket format support and open their own mobipocket bookstore...well, I guess that's dreaming too...

tonyofla · 09-09-2008, 10:20 AM

They can’t announce a new model next month can they, just after launching the 505 with Waterstones in the UK and Ireland? That would mean that they were offloading old stock on us. Sony would never do something like that would they?

tompe · 09-09-2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scythe

You can compare it to your mobile phone. Does your LCD stay on for days at a time, or does it go to sleep?

Mine is on all the time since it displays the time. But the back light is not on all the time. So I do not believe that LCD without back light affect the reading time compared to the CPU consumption which give a standby time of 5 days in for example the Cybook.

David Munch · 09-09-2008, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Well, as a Mac user I would say that "good portion" isn't quite correct. I have heard estimates of 5% Mac penetration in the US. While that is a large number, it is a very small percentage.

Its actually around 10% in the US now, with ~5% world wide.

I for one hope for an updated Sony Reader, and this invite makes me think no less than that.. Maybe it'll become my next purchase, instead of a Cybook?

But then it has to have proper Mac support..

mattgb · 09-09-2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate the great

There is a competing technology: LCD.
The only real benefit of Eink is it uses less energy than an LCD. But if you have the Eink screen in a reader with a moderately powerful CPU, the power savings are negligible. Most of the power is consumed by the electronics, not the screen.

Also note that because en eInk screen doesn't refresh it is MUCH easier on the eye just like an, erm, book! (Although I personally do not suffer headache from staring at an LCD screen all day at work I know people who do and also, for me, eInk is definitely less tiring than reading from an LCD screen).

Also (and this is major IMHO) - as long as the ambient lighting is good enough to read a book then you I can read my PRS-505 - that includes fairly low 'ambient' lighting in my bedroom of an evening to ultra bright sunlight on the beach in Sardinia a fortnight ago! Frankly I was amazed at the performance on the beach - it really came into its own.

Krystian Galaj · 09-09-2008, 10:28 AM

It's enough that I look at LCD screen for 15 minutes to get a headache. On CRT monitor, even worse. I work on LCD screens, with brightness set to minimum, contrast to 40%, additional gamma settings to make it less bright, and bright lamp pointed at the screen - but I'd never take LCD over eInk screen.

RWood · 09-09-2008, 10:29 AM

Sony has built their Reader brand on e-ink, to change it to something else would be folly. Likewise, the price of each unit will decrease over time. This is a function of economies of scale. Since the main cost driver is still the e-ink screen, everything in pricing is dependent on that one component.

I see several possible actions they could take:

a new 6" model with extended battery life
A move to ePub for all future Sony books
Opening the selling of ePub books for the Sony to many new sources such as Boarders, etc.
Introduction of a larger b+w e-ink Reader

I would be surprised if they changed the form factor of the current Reader or introduced an additional Reader with color e-ink.

PS: Bob, My wife's Baby Lock also requires Windows for all of the associated software.

pilotbob · 09-09-2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Munch

Its actually around 10% in the US now, with ~5% world wide.

I for one hope for an updated Sony Reader, and this invite makes me think no less than that.. Maybe it'll become my next purchase, instead of a Cybook?

But then it has to have proper Mac support..

I would believe 10% of sales in recent quarter were 10%. But, I don't think that equates to 10% of machines in use being Macs. I also thing the vast majority of Macs out there are still PPC?

Although I would like to see some solid numbers, it's really hard to get accurate ones. I certainly would like to see Sony support Mac/Linux. It seems that letting you just by via web browser would be the easiest way. Not sure what they do to "authorize" a machine, but I assume they just put a hidden license file on the device somewhere... not sure why any type of driver is needed to do that.

BOb

HarryT · 09-09-2008, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

Mine is on all the time since it displays the time. But the back light is not on all the time. So I do not believe that LCD without back light affect the reading time compared to the CPU consumption which give a standby time of 5 days in for example the Cybook.

Do you think that would still be the case for an LCD screen the size of the Gen3's screen?

Scythe · 09-09-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

Mine is on all the time since it displays the time. But the back light is not on all the time. So I do not believe that LCD without back light affect the reading time compared to the CPU consumption which give a standby time of 5 days in for example the Cybook.

Missing the point. Your LCD needs constant electricity to run (it needs constant power to keep the cells charged). eInk just needs the power on page change for the pushing and popping of pixels (per se).

Take a look at: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/e-ink2.htm

Quote:

E Ink said that in electronic devices, electronic ink would use 50 to 100 times less power than liquid crystal displays because electronic ink only needs power when changing its display. For this same reason, a digital book can display the same text for weeks without any additional charge applied to it.

tompe · 09-09-2008, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Do you think that would still be the case for an LCD screen the size of the Gen3's screen?

Yes since I believe the power consumption is very low for just maintaining the lcd screen.

Scythe · 09-09-2008, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

Yes since I believe the power consumption is very low for just maintaining the lcd screen.

An eInk display will stay visually on the screen much longer than the same thing displayed on an LCD -- using the same battery and charge. Read up on how eInk works first and then if you still feel you're right we can continue arguing

You're fighting an uphill battle when comparing the 2 technologies.

tonyofla · 09-09-2008, 10:47 AM

Engadget on the Sony Oct 2nd event
http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/09/s...sh-next-month/

09-09-2008, 10:04 AM	#31
Scythe Member Posts: 13 Karma: 40 Join Date: Jul 2008 Device: Sony PR505	HarryT is completely spot on. The beauty with eInk is that the only CPU work being done is the original rendering of the image to the screen, then it goes into standby. The processor goes into "hibernation" where it can remain for many many days and the page will stay continually on the screen with very minuscule power drain. Also, the screen on an eInk display only needs power upon picture change. Hence why you get that slightly annoying flicker on page change. It wipes the screen (per se), and then displays the new rendering. It's very similar to an etch-a-sketch. With LCD it has to display constantly, at a high refresh rate to even maintain something close to the eInk display. Enjoy that 5 hour battery time You can compare it to your mobile phone. Does your LCD stay on for days at a time, or does it go to sleep? Last edited by Scythe; 09-09-2008 at 10:11 AM.

09-09-2008, 10:14 AM	#32
khourianya TechnoBookworm Posts: 99 Karma: 7844 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Langdon, Alberta Canada Device: Sony PRS-505, Samsung Galaxy Tab, Kobo Glo, Kobo Mini	Maybe sony will release support for Kindle format in a revolutionary alliance with Amazon and Amazon will allow their content to be available worldwide! Ya - I know. DREAMING. But wouldn't that be amazing in terms of available content? What about a wifi dongle that could be plugged into the min-USB allowing you to port from Mac/PC and (dare I dream) Linux? I don't need the ability to buy anywhere anytime...that woul dbe financially ruinous for me - but to be able to transfer would be great. Last edited by khourianya; 09-09-2008 at 10:25 AM.

09-09-2008, 10:29 AM	#39
RWood Technogeezer Posts: 7,233 Karma: 1601464 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Virginia, USA Device: Sony PRS-500	Sony has built their Reader brand on e-ink, to change it to something else would be folly. Likewise, the price of each unit will decrease over time. This is a function of economies of scale. Since the main cost driver is still the e-ink screen, everything in pricing is dependent on that one component. I see several possible actions they could take: a new 6" model with extended battery life A move to ePub for all future Sony books Opening the selling of ePub books for the Sony to many new sources such as Boarders, etc. Introduction of a larger b+w e-ink Reader I would be surprised if they changed the form factor of the current Reader or introduced an additional Reader with color e-ink. PS: Bob, My wife's Baby Lock also requires Windows for all of the associated software.

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09-09-2008, 10:18 AM	#33
CommanderROR eink fanatic Posts: 2,022 Karma: 4924 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Germany Device: STAReBOOK, iRex Iliad, Sony 505, Kindle 2	Sony need not go for kindle books, they could go for mobipocket format support and open their own mobipocket bookstore...well, I guess that's dreaming too...

09-09-2008, 10:20 AM	#34
tonyofla Enthusiast Posts: 25 Karma: 12 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Dublin, Ireland. Device: Kindle Oasis	They can’t announce a new model next month can they, just after launching the 505 with Waterstones in the UK and Ireland? That would mean that they were offloading old stock on us. Sony would never do something like that would they?

09-09-2008, 10:28 AM	#38
Krystian Galaj Guru Posts: 820 Karma: 11012 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Warsaw, Poland Device: Bookeen Cybook	It's enough that I look at LCD screen for 15 minutes to get a headache. On CRT monitor, even worse. I work on LCD screens, with brightness set to minimum, contrast to 40%, additional gamma settings to make it less bright, and bright lamp pointed at the screen - but I'd never take LCD over eInk screen.

09-09-2008, 10:47 AM	#45
tonyofla Enthusiast Posts: 25 Karma: 12 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Dublin, Ireland. Device: Kindle Oasis	Engadget on the Sony Oct 2nd event http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/09/s...sh-next-month/