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Old 09-12-2020, 12:12 PM   #1
increase
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KDP paperback page limits

Trying to upload a paperback manuscript to KDP, if the manuscript is 800 pages or less, the manuscript uploads without issue, but my manuscript is over 4500 and I receive internal error.

I emailed KDP and they state that the total number of pages allowed is 8,000 and the max file size is about 600mb.

My page size is under 5,000 and the file size is 3566 kb.

The email only advised checking print options.
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Old 09-12-2020, 12:53 PM   #2
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That’s a tremendous pagecount. I’m not sure you could even page through a book like that without destroying it in the process. You’ll have to split this into multiple volumes.

Last edited by phillipgessert; 09-12-2020 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 09-12-2020, 01:06 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillipgessert View Post
That’s a tremendous pagecount. I’m not sure you could even page through a book like that without destroying it the process. You’ll have to split this into multiple volumes.
I know it is high, but it is a bible with commentary and I see many, many bibles in Amazon and if there limit is 8000 pages it should upload
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Old 09-12-2020, 04:40 PM   #4
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It’s gotta be a typo—800 seems a lot more likely. Their cover generator caps at 630 at the largest trim size. Kinda makes sense, right? A 450 page book would be about an inch thick, 4500 it would be so thick it would be very difficult to read, probably impossible. Bibles usually use very thin paper and many/most are sewn, not perfect bound.
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Old 09-12-2020, 05:15 PM   #5
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The maximum number of pages allowed depends on the printing options you choose. According to the KDP Print Options page it maxes out at just over 800 pages.
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Old 09-12-2020, 07:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillipgessert View Post
It’s gotta be a typo—800 seems a lot more likely. Their cover generator caps at 630 at the largest trim size. Kinda makes sense, right? A 450 page book would be about an inch thick, 4500 it would be so thick it would be very difficult to read, probably impossible. Bibles usually use very thin paper and many/most are sewn, not perfect bound.
It's not a typo; It certainly does not say 8,000 pages. He's misunderstood, is all. See here: https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G201834180 where the 828 page limit is CLEARLY set out.

KDP and all POD books are basically bound using the perfect-bound process. Perfect-bound has a physical limitation--the binding spine cannot be much over 2" thick, before the binding simply fails. That's 825 pages, give or take on thinner, 50# white paper and about 800 pages with the slightly thicker 50# cream paper.

828 pages is the absolute, outside page limit at KDP and at most POD companies. 4500 is quite simply not doable with the binding processes available to you via Print on Demand.

NO perfect-bound book in the known universe is a thousand pages and certainly not 4500.

Yes, you see longer books on Amazon--those are printed commercially, using other binding processes and are paid for by the publisher--that's you--and then put up for sale on Amazon. When you use a POD process, the POD company, like Amazon, is taking all the risk, on the book printing, binding, packaging and shipping, before the customer pays and even then, if the customer insists on returning the book, Amazon doesn't get to recoup their shipping costs. (or overhead, either).

Thus, I'm sorry, but you're going to have to break that "book" into 6 smaller portions, OR, you will need to pay a professional to lay it out in signatures, and to design a proper cover for a different binding process, and then pay to have 100+ copies printed. Then you can set up a seller's account, with Amazon and handle the orders, fulfilment, collection, shipping, etc., yourself.

(FYI, I should add that I personally do not know of any binding process that can handle 4500 pages.)

Good luck.

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Old 09-13-2020, 03:49 AM   #7
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Just out of curiosity I took the biggest book I have at home and it is 1470 pages for a height of almost 8 centimeters. A 4500-page book would be roughly 23-24 centimeters (9 inches in the American system) .

And I quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillipgessert View Post
... A 450 page book would be about an inch thick, 4500 it would be so thick it would be very difficult to read, probably impossible. ...

Last edited by ps67; 09-13-2020 at 03:58 AM.
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Old 09-13-2020, 11:29 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by ps67 View Post
Just out of curiosity I took the biggest book I have at home and it is 1470 pages for a height of almost 8 centimeters. A 4500-page book would be roughly 23-24 centimeters (9 inches in the American system) .

And I quote:
(sigh). And printed on what type of paper? What weight? There are many Bibles, for example, printed on scritta paper. Scritta paper--which is most certainly NOT POD paper--made with cotton or linen fibers, typically and isn't, in a highly technical sense, "paper" because it doesn't have any wood fibers.

Bible paper is typically 25GSM to a high of 40. POD paper, at Amazon, Ingram, etc., is 50-55#. Twice the weight.

When you use paper this light, you have to line-match, as well, to reduce ghosting.

MOREOVER, Bibles and other thicker books that use scritta or other high-premium lightweight paper aren't perfect bound, either. They're typically SEWN, rather than only glued. (FYI, they are typically ALSO glued, to add strength.) They're printed in signatures and then sewn together, which provides significant added strength.

If you have a 1470-page book that's 3.24", you are most surely seeing scritta or "Indian" paper, for one thing; it's been sewn, not glued; it probably has a leather binding, not perfect bound.

With all due respect, this is apples and oranges. The one actually has very little to do with the other. It's a bit like saying that because Zebras are members of the Equus family, all horses can or should or do have stripes.

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Old 09-13-2020, 02:35 PM   #9
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OK, I understand, so how thick would be a book like that of 4500 pages?
I imagine that anyway it would be impossible to read.
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Old 09-13-2020, 03:07 PM   #10
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This book has 1,515 pages, and is 2¾" thick, 5½" wide x 8½" tall.

I bought it before the Kindle version was released, and had contemplated cutting the spine into 3-4 smaller sections for reading.

Adding, I have the book in Kindle version, but have not read it yet. One of these days...
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Old 09-13-2020, 03:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deskisamess View Post
This book has 1,515 pages, and is 2¾" thick, 5½" wide x 8½" tall.

I bought it before the Kindle version was released, and had contemplated cutting the spine into 3-4 smaller sections for reading.

Adding, I have the book in Kindle version, but have not read it yet. One of these days...
Right and presumably, it's published by some trade publisher that's willing to risk the falling-apart-y-ness of a book that large/thick. Generally speaking, perfect binding, which is what that looks like, is limited to 2-2.25", not more.

In the POD world, where the printer (Amazon, etc.) is the entity taking all the risk, effectively, they're just not going to do that.

4500 pages? For Amazon, that would be...let's see...if we assume that 800 pages is a skoosh over 2" deep--but let's just go with 2" for the ease of the math, even though it's closer to 2.25--then 4500 pages would be 5.6x that, so 11.2" deep. I don't think you could get that sucker off the bindery without it falling apart!

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Old 09-13-2020, 06:35 PM   #12
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OK, I understand, so how thick would be a book like that of 4500 pages?
I imagine that anyway it would be impossible to read.
It honestly doesn’t much matter because KDP definitely doesn't use scritta. OP would need like best of the best, boundary-exploding printing for something like this, and KDP couldn’t be much farther from that.

I feel like a 4500 page book, made from top-flight materials, with a revolutionary binding, would still have to be the size of a small room for any hope of reading page 2250. It’s half a case of paper!
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Old 09-13-2020, 06:59 PM   #13
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TBH, I don't think that such a pBook of that size will sell all that well.
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Old 09-13-2020, 10:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillipgessert View Post
It honestly doesn’t much matter because KDP definitely doesn't use scritta. OP would need like best of the best, boundary-exploding printing for something like this, and KDP couldn’t be much farther from that.

I feel like a 4500 page book, made from top-flight materials, with a revolutionary binding, would still have to be the size of a small room for any hope of reading page 2250. It’s half a case of paper!
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TBH, I don't think that such a pBook of that size will sell all that well.
The OP needs to find a speciality Bible printer and bite the bullet and print it AS a Bible with scritta or Bible paper. That's just how it is.

That means he has to pay upfront. It's not what he wants, I'm sure, but...there you are.

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Old 09-14-2020, 09:59 AM   #15
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Yes, all POD, even so called Hardback is much more limited on number of pages than conventional print runs (which can maybe be as low as 100, but you pay up front, inc setup costs).
Also POD with more than US Letter size, or A4, or the Letter Width plus A4 length is very rare. Obviously larger pages, smaller margins and a smaller font helps.
But also POD might not do smaller fonts as well as a real print run. KDP is 7 pt minimum, but actual size per font varies and we've found that 8 pt is a practical lower limit.

So Bible type printing or a boxed set of volumes. I'd actually like to get the commonly available bibles in volumes. Not actually 66 books, but more than six books.

For years (since 1960s) I only had LOTR as one volume. I was delighted to get a present this year of it in three volumes, though they are rather heavy Folio Society editions.
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