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Old 05-13-2011, 03:10 PM   #31
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I spend a good portion of my day imagining just such a world. Everything basically hinges on karma, do unto others as you would have them do unto you and such.

There are people out there that like to exploit others for their own benefit, by storing copies of ebooks on sites and then placing advertising on those sites to generate revenue.

In a copyright free world those kind of sites would be irrelevant, ebooks would be available gratis from the source, the authentic site.

There will be extreme competition to create the true authentic site, that hosts all ebooks and also provides an extremely streamlined and highly functional interface for the reader.

I suspect Amazon is already considering the matter.

Have a nice day.
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Old 05-13-2011, 03:11 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by carld View Post
That's just utter nonsense.

Wait, I get it. This is a parody thread, right?
I'm acting the role of parity in lieu of the folks who have actually been advocating these things in other threads. Supposedly, history proves that copyright actually stifles almost all knowledge and it's sole purpose is to disenfranchise the poor.

So, rather than debate the past, I thought I'd bring the discussion into the present. Surely we'd see an exact repeat of 1710 England/Germany if only we'd have no copyright.

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Old 05-13-2011, 03:13 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by apbschmitz View Post
Okay, this is from the perspective of someone who has made a living from writing for the past 35 years. Why is this conversation limited to intellectual property? To extend the logic a bit, why shouldn't all property be open to all takers? I suppose I'd be happy enough to give away what I make if I could take everything else I need. Is that part of the deal?
That's step two. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Since the internet has effectively made everything free already...we are starting off by acknowledging this reality. More than acknowledging it, we embrace it. We declare the end of intellectual property a virtue.

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Old 05-13-2011, 03:15 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by spellbanisher View Post
In communism, the single party owned everything. That is not the same as saying everyone owned everything.
Posh. The party owned everything for our behalf. How else could we see an equitable distribution?

But for you -- you are now living in a thread where at least we can glory in "what would be" if we made that step and abolished intellectual property.

We need not rehash the past. Let us glory in this new future where the poor have access to all knowledge. Where greedy publishers have been stripped of their power!

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Old 05-13-2011, 03:17 PM   #35
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so the purpose of this thread is what? To poke fun at another member that feels there should be no copyright?

If that is the case I will be happy to remove it. Personal attacks, direct, indirect, publicly posted or in PMs are not allowed or tolerated here.

BOb
This is a thought challenge. Another way to come at the issue of copyright, pricing, price fixing, agency, corporate greed. What would happen if we went all the way and just abolished copyright altogether.

Wouldn't the world be a better place?

Wouldn't knowledge being free be the best of all worlds?

Who can possibly make a challenge to this notion?

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Old 05-13-2011, 03:20 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by spellbanisher View Post
You seem to see the world in a communist/capitalist dichotomy. The cold war ended twenty years ago.
The battle over intellectual property continues. The notion that money is a great motivator of invention and creativity is doubted, ne reviled.

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Old 05-13-2011, 03:20 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by leebase View Post
Surely you jest. Not everyone is a selfish capital pig. Look at the open source movement and the thousands of folks giving away their work on Smashwords and the like. Heck, even Amazon and Apple have free sections in their stores. On what grounds to you suggest that folks would stop creating just because selfish people like you demand to be paid for your work?



Lee
How is it selfish to want to be paid for your work? In our capitalist society, you pay for rent, groceries and transportation. Until all of this is free, people need to have income.

Yes, there is open source, but that is usually volunteer time donated by some people. Most of them have "day jobs" as well to pay the bill.

I do volunteer with a local non-profit group, but I also run my own business to pay the bills.
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Old 05-13-2011, 03:24 PM   #38
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Is there any reason that your every response in this thread shouldn't be considered to be a massive troll, leebase? Because I can't see one.
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Old 05-13-2011, 03:26 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggleton View Post
I spend a good portion of my day imagining just such a world. Everything basically hinges on karma, do unto others as you would have them do unto you and such.
And I welcome you to this thread. You are definitely one who has been advocating for just this scenario.

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Originally Posted by Giggleton View Post
There are people out there that like to exploit others for their own benefit, by storing copies of ebooks on sites and then placing advertising on those sites to generate revenue.
Why is this a bad thing in your opinion? The ebooks are now free from ownership. Everyone can do with them as they please. Put ads on your site, or not.

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Originally Posted by Giggleton View Post
In a copyright free world those kind of sites would be irrelevant, ebooks would be available gratis from the source, the authentic site.
Where comes this notion of "authentic"? Without copyright, I can put my name on anyone else's work. It would be no less legitimate for me to put my name on someone's work than to use characters others have invented in my own stories. There is no ownership.

I also fail to see how a copyright free world will do anything to change the nature of advertising on websites. Perhaps you could clarify.

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There will be extreme competition to create the true authentic site, that hosts all ebooks and also provides an extremely streamlined and highly functional interface for the reader.
Who is going to pay for this site? Why are they going to spend money sifting through an endless supply of novels to try and figure out who the real author is? And who care's who the real author is? Is "Dune by Joe Shmoe" any less desirable than "Dune by Frank Herbert" when they are the exact same book? Who knows....maybe Joe Shmoe makes an even better cover or sprinkles illustrations throughout the book.

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Old 05-13-2011, 03:29 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by ebusinesstutor View Post
How is it selfish to want to be paid for your work? In our capitalist society, you pay for rent, groceries and transportation. Until all of this is free, people need to have income.
It's selfish to withhold knowledge and entertainment for the poor. Have you no heart?

And yes, I agree, in our capitalist society a lot of such evil occurs. Getting rid of the unvirtuous notion of intellectual property and copyright is just the first step in making society better.

Wouldn't it be better if every book in every university were freely available to the poor? You think we are best served by withholding knowledge for only the elite?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggleton View Post
Yes, there is open source, but that is usually volunteer time donated by some people. Most of them have "day jobs" as well to pay the bill.
And such "day jobbers" will continue to have jobs. Isn't that the best way?

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Old 05-13-2011, 03:31 PM   #41
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Either one of them....
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Old 05-13-2011, 03:33 PM   #42
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And everyone who tries to make an honest living from any form of content creation - eg, computer programmers, authors, musicians, film makers - is out of a job. Who do you imagine is going to create content in this fantasy world of yours?

I've made a good living (on average) writing COBOL code for Mainframe computers for big companies. I never got a copyright for any of it. Strictly work for hire...
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Old 05-13-2011, 03:34 PM   #43
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Is there any reason that your every response in this thread shouldn't be considered to be a massive troll, leebase? Because I can't see one.
A troll stirs people up just to stir people up. This is a provocative treatment of a subject we discuss all the time on this forum in many forms.

I agree that there are inequities in our society. And yet, one must actually think through from the other side, sometimes, to really get understanding.

How could high priced ebooks ever be considered a virtue? Well, lets consider a world in which there was no copyright. That would HAVE to be a better world, right?

The poor would no longer be denied access to knowledge or even entertainment on the basis of being unable to pay. Isn't that obviously a good thing?

"Greedy corporate publishers" are an easy enemy. Surely they do nothing but serve themselves and society would be much better without them. Well. Let's take some time and imagine that world.

Is money necessary to entice people to create books? Just how in the world can authors and the like make money if there was no concept of intellectual property.

Lee
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Old 05-13-2011, 03:40 PM   #44
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I've made a good living (on average) writing COBOL code for Mainframe computers for big companies. I never got a copyright for any of it. Strictly work for hire...
Work for hire. Of course, that's one of the solutions. Authors can write free books as advertisement of their writing ability. Then folks will pay them to write books.

Oh wait. In this copyright free world, the corporations could not own the code you wrote for them. You would be free to take the code you wrote for pay, and then offer it for sale to any other corporation.

We have this with opensource. But the truth behind modern opensource is that most of the major projects are actually sponsored by corporations. Oracle, IBM, HP, even Microsoft contribute billions of dollars into open source. And yet those billions of dollars come from profits from their proprietary software. There won't be any such concept in this world.

How many billions of dollars is Microsoft going to continue pumping into Windows when windows too will become freely available for copying?

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Old 05-13-2011, 03:43 PM   #45
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I've made a good living (on average) writing COBOL code for Mainframe computers for big companies. I never got a copyright for any of it. Strictly work for hire...
But your employer does, I suspect. If they didn't make a profit, you'd be out of a job.
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