Electronic versions of out-of-print paperbacks

Gannett · 10-11-2010, 12:16 AM

I own hundreds of old paperbacks, mainly British mystery and science fiction from between the 50s to the 70s, and I would guess most are out of print. I wonder whether there would be any interest in converting some of these to electronic formats.

I have converted one book, and am beginning another conversion. I enjoy doing it, it's more time-consuming than difficult.

Most of the books are in copyright, so I wouldn't be able to offer them for free. Does anyone think it would be worth offering these to rights holders to see if there would be any interest there? If ther were, would they be likely to buy the ebook? How should I approach the rights holders? Would it be worth approaching ebook retailers like Amazon with electronic versions of out-of-print books?

GA Russell · 10-11-2010, 12:22 AM

Great idea! I imagine there are many heirs who would consider their royalties to be pennies from heaven and would encourage you to do it.

My guess would be that the hardest part would be identifying all of the rights holders. For example, you might need the cooperation of eight grandchildren of a long-deceased author, and tracking them down and getting all of them to approve your proposed payment arrangement might be quite a chore.

nyrath · 10-11-2010, 01:28 PM

Especially since it is common for the grandchildren's eyes to light up with greed when approached on the subject. I believe there are several such novels that the publishers want to re-print, but the heirs want far to much money for the rights.

Sweetpea · 10-11-2010, 02:31 PM

Another example why the current copyright laws are so completely wrong...

SensualPoet · 10-11-2010, 03:02 PM

Erle Stanley Gardner -- author of the Perry Mason novels -- 72 of them -- not a single one available (legally) as an ebook -- and a fraction -- under 5? -- in print. Drives me bonkers. These would continue to sell as backlist items and could be reissued with prefaces from lawyers, actors, writers who continue to admire Gardner's Perry Mason character.

theducks · 10-11-2010, 03:29 PM

Baen has many titles (some are in the free library) that are not economically re-printable, still available in e-form

kevinp · 10-11-2010, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gannett

Most of the books are in copyright, so I wouldn't be able to offer them for free. Does anyone think it would be worth offering these to rights holders to see if there would be any interest there? If ther were, would they be likely to buy the ebook? How should I approach the rights holders? Would it be worth approaching ebook retailers like Amazon with electronic versions of out-of-print books?

I think they would view you as a criminal unfortunately. You'll find in a lot of books the following warning:

No part of this book may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopying, recording, or by any information storage and retrieval system, without permission in writing from the publisher.

MR. Pockets · 10-11-2010, 05:04 PM

But if he owns a physical copy, can't he make an electronic copy for his own use if he wants?

Greg Anos · 10-11-2010, 05:39 PM

Also consider age of death and jurisdictional issues.

For example Erle Stanley Gardener died in 1970. In a Life + 50 jurisdiction, his work go Public Domain, Jan 1, 2021. However, in Life + 70, it's 2041.

You can get into the situation where it's illegal for you to scan the work, but legal for somebody to post is in another jurisdiction. Sort of like the Hollywood blacklist, where a screenwriter couldn't work as a screenwriter, but did so anyway, using a front man...

And there are a lot of authors falling in this gap. Some examples -

Emilie Loring - Romance (died 1951) (all her non-ghosted - pre '51 are available for scanning in Life + 50.)

Zane Grey - American Westerns (died 1939) All of his works are available for scanning in Life + 50 and 70, but not all are scanned yet.

James Branch Cabell - fantasy (died 1958) Available for scanning in Life + 50. The same for most of American writers famous in the 1920's, H.L. Mencken, Joseph Hergseheimer, among others.

Reminiscences of a Stock Operator - Lefevre - (died 1943) classic book about Jessie Livermore - Stock Speculator.

And on, And on....

Quite truthfully, you could spend a lifetime scanning P.D. works....

K-Thom · 10-11-2010, 05:41 PM

Depends on the country.

Also, copying is one legal issue. Distributing them something else. Is it really worth investing hours of work merely for your own joy if you already own the paperbacks?

CazMar · 10-11-2010, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-Thom

Depends on the country.

Also, copying is one legal issue. Distributing them something else. Is it really worth investing hours of work merely for your own joy if you already own the paperbacks?

Probably the issue here is more of "do the owners want an electronic version produced"?
There must be a lot of books from the 50's and 60's made prior to electronic typesetting which need to be properly digitised. If a publisher wanted to reprint an old book they could do so by negotiating with the legal copyright holders. Why not approach a publishing house and try to do a deal where you do the scanning and presentation work and take a cut of any profits? They probably use freelance subcontractors to do cover illustrations etc so it would fit in with their usual business model.

GA Russell · 10-11-2010, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CazMar

Probably the issue here is more of "do the owners want an electronic version produced"?
There must be a lot of books from the 50's and 60's made prior to electronic typesetting which need to be properly digitised. If a publisher wanted to reprint an old book they could do so by negotiating with the legal copyright holders. Why not approach a publishing house and try to do a deal where you do the scanning and presentation work and take a cut of any profits? They probably use freelance subcontractors to do cover illustrations etc so it would fit in with their usual business model.

CazMar, it's not likely that the paper book's publisher has the rights to publish the eBook edition. If the rights need to be obtained from the heirs, why cut the publisher in on it?

Lady Fitzgerald · 10-11-2010, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-Thom

Depends on the country.

Also, copying is one legal issue. Distributing them something else. Is it really worth investing hours of work merely for your own joy if you already own the paperbacks?

Depends. In my case it is worth the time and the expense for the equipment because I will not otherwise have room for any of my books in the not too distant future. I am cheating, however, and just scanning to PDF and not bothering with OCR and the tedious, time consuming editing that goes with it.

Gannett · 10-11-2010, 10:36 PM

Thanks for your replies. You all make some very interesting points.

I (rather naively) assumed I could offer electronic version of a particular work to a rights-holder (if they can be traced) or their agent. Electronic books seem to be gaining popularity now, moving away from the scanned PDFs of the last 10 years or so, and I was prepared to put the work in and, with the agreement of the copyright hlders, distribute them.

But reading your posts I'm wondering if, apart from preserving some yellowing 40-year old paperback for the future, it's really worth the effort. Hypothetically speaking, of course, I could make these works available for all and sundry, so they wouldn't have to spend hours in dusty second-hand shops, but in reality I would not want to breach copyright laws!

Oh well, it was worth thinking about, I suppose.

GA Russell · 10-11-2010, 10:46 PM

Well, Gannett, I suppose it may be a matter of how easy it is for you to do the work. In theory, you could go ahead and make the eBook and offer it for sale, and then wait for anyone to object. And the individual/entity who objects would have to prove that he has the rights.

At that point, you could happily withdraw the eBook from the market and begin negotiations. And if they refuse to meet your price, they would be forced to make their own eBooks.

The one issue that comes to mind with that scenario is that I suspect that popular websites like Amazon and Smashwords require proof that you have the right to publish the eBook before they will list it. But that may not be right. And even if it is, you could start your own website.

It would just depend on how much effort each eBook requires, knowing that odds are that some of them will come to naught.

10-11-2010, 12:16 AM	#1
Gannett Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: none	Electronic versions of out-of-print paperbacks I own hundreds of old paperbacks, mainly British mystery and science fiction from between the 50s to the 70s, and I would guess most are out of print. I wonder whether there would be any interest in converting some of these to electronic formats. I have converted one book, and am beginning another conversion. I enjoy doing it, it's more time-consuming than difficult. Most of the books are in copyright, so I wouldn't be able to offer them for free. Does anyone think it would be worth offering these to rights holders to see if there would be any interest there? If ther were, would they be likely to buy the ebook? How should I approach the rights holders? Would it be worth approaching ebook retailers like Amazon with electronic versions of out-of-print books?

10-11-2010, 05:39 PM	#9
Greg Anos Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,248 Karma: 35000000 Join Date: Jan 2008 Device: Pocketbook	Also consider age of death and jurisdictional issues. For example Erle Stanley Gardener died in 1970. In a Life + 50 jurisdiction, his work go Public Domain, Jan 1, 2021. However, in Life + 70, it's 2041. You can get into the situation where it's illegal for you to scan the work, but legal for somebody to post is in another jurisdiction. Sort of like the Hollywood blacklist, where a screenwriter couldn't work as a screenwriter, but did so anyway, using a front man... And there are a lot of authors falling in this gap. Some examples - Emilie Loring - Romance (died 1951) (all her non-ghosted - pre '51 are available for scanning in Life + 50.) Zane Grey - American Westerns (died 1939) All of his works are available for scanning in Life + 50 and 70, but not all are scanned yet. James Branch Cabell - fantasy (died 1958) Available for scanning in Life + 50. The same for most of American writers famous in the 1920's, H.L. Mencken, Joseph Hergseheimer, among others. Reminiscences of a Stock Operator - Lefevre - (died 1943) classic book about Jessie Livermore - Stock Speculator. And on, And on.... Quite truthfully, you could spend a lifetime scanning P.D. works.... Last edited by Greg Anos; 10-11-2010 at 05:43 PM.

10-11-2010, 10:36 PM	#14
Gannett Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: none	Thanks. Thanks for your replies. You all make some very interesting points. I (rather naively) assumed I could offer electronic version of a particular work to a rights-holder (if they can be traced) or their agent. Electronic books seem to be gaining popularity now, moving away from the scanned PDFs of the last 10 years or so, and I was prepared to put the work in and, with the agreement of the copyright hlders, distribute them. But reading your posts I'm wondering if, apart from preserving some yellowing 40-year old paperback for the future, it's really worth the effort. Hypothetically speaking, of course, I could make these works available for all and sundry, so they wouldn't have to spend hours in dusty second-hand shops, but in reality I would not want to breach copyright laws! Oh well, it was worth thinking about, I suppose.

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10-11-2010, 12:22 AM	#2
GA Russell Montreal wins Grey Cup! Posts: 7,583 Karma: 31484197 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Device: Paperwhite, Kindles 10 & 4 and jetBook Lite	Great idea! I imagine there are many heirs who would consider their royalties to be pennies from heaven and would encourage you to do it. My guess would be that the hardest part would be identifying all of the rights holders. For example, you might need the cooperation of eight grandchildren of a long-deceased author, and tracking them down and getting all of them to approve your proposed payment arrangement might be quite a chore.

10-11-2010, 01:28 PM	#3
nyrath Addict Posts: 281 Karma: 52007 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: nook	Especially since it is common for the grandchildren's eyes to light up with greed when approached on the subject. I believe there are several such novels that the publishers want to re-print, but the heirs want far to much money for the rights.

10-11-2010, 02:31 PM	#4
Sweetpea Grand Sorcerer Posts: 9,707 Karma: 32763414 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Krewerd Device: Pocketbook Inkpad 4 Color; Samsung Galaxy Tab S6	Another example why the current copyright laws are so completely wrong...

10-11-2010, 03:02 PM	#5
SensualPoet Wizard Posts: 2,302 Karma: 2607151 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Toronto Device: Kobo Aura HD, Kindle Paperwhite, Asus ZenPad 3, Kobo Glo	Erle Stanley Gardner -- author of the Perry Mason novels -- 72 of them -- not a single one available (legally) as an ebook -- and a fraction -- under 5? -- in print. Drives me bonkers. These would continue to sell as backlist items and could be reissued with prefaces from lawyers, actors, writers who continue to admire Gardner's Perry Mason character.

10-11-2010, 03:29 PM	#6
theducks Well trained by Cats Posts: 29,800 Karma: 54830978 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Central Coast of California Device: Kobo Libra2,Kobo Aura2v1, K4NT(Fixed: New Bat.), Galaxy Tab A	Baen has many titles (some are in the free library) that are not economically re-printable, still available in e-form

10-11-2010, 05:04 PM	#8
MR. Pockets Addict Posts: 216 Karma: 4320 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Idaho, USA Device: Kobo Touch, Aluratek Libre Pro	But if he owns a physical copy, can't he make an electronic copy for his own use if he wants?

10-11-2010, 05:41 PM	#10
K-Thom The one and only Posts: 3,302 Karma: 535819 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Berlin, Germany Device: yup!	Depends on the country. Also, copying is one legal issue. Distributing them something else. Is it really worth investing hours of work merely for your own joy if you already own the paperbacks?

10-11-2010, 10:46 PM	#15
GA Russell Montreal wins Grey Cup! Posts: 7,583 Karma: 31484197 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Device: Paperwhite, Kindles 10 & 4 and jetBook Lite	Well, Gannett, I suppose it may be a matter of how easy it is for you to do the work. In theory, you could go ahead and make the eBook and offer it for sale, and then wait for anyone to object. And the individual/entity who objects would have to prove that he has the rights. At that point, you could happily withdraw the eBook from the market and begin negotiations. And if they refuse to meet your price, they would be forced to make their own eBooks. The one issue that comes to mind with that scenario is that I suspect that popular websites like Amazon and Smashwords require proof that you have the right to publish the eBook before they will list it. But that may not be right. And even if it is, you could start your own website. It would just depend on how much effort each eBook requires, knowing that odds are that some of them will come to naught.

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