My thoughts, PRS-300, PRS-600, PRS-505, PRS-700, Kindle 2

[Crowl]

Originally Posted by Loose_Appeal

I wonder if the guy that organized the focus groups for Sony's newest Readers has gotten fired yet.

It's weird to see the disparity between the 300 and the 600, with the 300 you get the feeling that they had a clear idea of what to make and who they expected to buy it, but with the 600 you seem to have something that won't really appeal to many existing 505 or 700 customers nor have a major impact on expanding the market other than through the increase in countries where they are selling it.

[Andanzas]

Originally Posted by sminarovich

Does anyone have any experience comparing the 500 with the 600? I was always aware of the greyness of the 500 but after awhile you just get over it. I don't know if the 500 has a glare problem if i can't read the screen a shift till I can? Will I find the screen as easy to read as the 500 if the answer is yes then i'll be thrilled..I imagine that the next edition will be ready in about 2 years anyway which is about as long as i've had my 500.

I went to the local Borders with my old trusty 500 to take a look at the 600. Certainly, as you know, not the best setting to see a reader, as there are lights everywhere. Still, I could move both readers a little bit around, and I noticed that the background of the 600 is definetily whiter than that of the 500, so it offers a better contrast. It's true that the 600 reflects more light than the 500, but it wasn't as bad as I expected. Honestly, I don't know what those 505 snobs are complaining about.

I actually quite liked it. If not for the Daily Edition, I would have bought right there. Well, let me rephrase this: if not for the Daily Edition and my wife, I would have bought it right there.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Crowl

It's weird to see the disparity between the 300 and the 600, with the 300 you get the feeling that they had a clear idea of what to make and who they expected to buy it, but with the 600 you seem to have something that won't really appeal to many existing 505 or 700 customers nor have a major impact on expanding the market other than through the increase in countries where they are selling it.

Given the number of people who wanted a dictionary, I really can't agree with you about that! That is, I suspect, the feature which will be most attractive to many people.

[DrMoze]

Originally Posted by richman

Gee, that type of opinion " this is fact, not a matter of opinion" , seems so old school. Did you have someone from past that used to talk to you like that? "My way is the LAW" and all the other people are stupid. That attitude starts the "religious wars" and "cold wars". How do you like it if I said to you? "It's a FACT the 505 screen is Blacker than the 300 and it's not an opinion but a FACT." Then start a FEUD on this board, or start a fist fight to PROVE to me you are RIGHT? Childish behavior but most of humanity still engages in it.

Take a chill pill, dude. Really. Feuds and fist fights? FWIW, I am trained as both a scientist and lawyer--I know (after extensive personal investigation) what is debatable, what is open to various views, and what is simply unbiased observation.

I did note in an earlier post that the 300 bg may seem a bit whiter because it is newer than the 505., and the bg may darken somewhat over time. The blacks are the same on these displays as far as I can tell. But upon very close inspection under magnification (based on comments and info links posted here buy others) that the edges of the characters on the 300 are much sharper than on the 505, which do appear to have 'gray' display units (cells or whatever; I hesitate to call them pixels). Close-up scrutiny reveals that the text characters on the 300 have sharper edges than the 500 (same document). These sharper text borders also contribute to better contrast, even thouigh both displays are highly readable.

Honestly, if I could find a negative karma button here, you would be on the receiving end. Your comments are disingenuously hypocritical.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by DrMoze

Take a chill pill, dude. Really. Feuds and fist fights? FWIW, I am trained as both a scientist and lawyer--I know (after extensive personal investigation) what is debatable, what is open to various views, and what is simply unbiased observation.
...

There is no such thing as UNBIASED OBSERVATION.

[cloggy]

I already posted my opinion about the PRS600 in another thread and here it is again:

I decided, after using (and having irritations) it for a few days, to return it. The main reasons are:
1) Font type cannot be changed, only size
2) No right justification
2) Screen reflection
3) Quality of the screen (not as crystal clear as my Hanlin V3ext)
4) Very rigid with ePub books. I need to convert the EPUB books that I can read on my Hanlin V3ext (with OpenInkpot) with Calibre to be able to read them. Most larger books shows a Page Error.
5) I inserted an SD card with about 800 books and after half an hour, it was still showing this, every now and then, revolving arrows.

I have only two pros:
1) The touch screen and how to use it.
2) Speed

IMHO, the firmware is far from mature and I have the impression that Sony dumped it in the market to be ahead of other new brands.

Maybe I'm spoiled by the flexibility of OpenInkpot on my Hanlin V3ext...??

[easterncoyote]

Originally Posted by Andanzas

I actually quite liked it. If not for the Daily Edition, I would have bought right there. Well, let me rephrase this: if not for the Daily Edition and my wife, I would have bought it right there.

hahaha. That's funny

[narbeauchamp]

Thanks for the thoughtful and clear comparison. Until this point I have only owned Sony Readers (used to read quite a bit on PDAs in the past).I have adjusted,over the last ten months or so to my 700,although still prefer my 505-but being that its broken,not much of a choice. I am waiting until the Daily Reader is released,and may consider between that,the 300 and the 600 as a second Sony reader...but in the immediate near future will be buying an iPod Touch (certainly a big plus is being able to use the kindle app) and have considered buying a Kindle as well.Will definitely take all of the points you listed into consideration !

[richman]

Originally Posted by kennyc

There is no such thing as UNBIASED OBSERVATION.

Yeah, that is what I was trying to say too. It's too bad he doesn't understand what we are trying to tell him. For him to come back and say he is a scientist and lawyer and "he gives only the facts" , inferring the other people in this forum are "stupid" and not as capable of looking at the 300 and 505 and compare them, just seemed "old school" to me.
I remember a few teachers who had that way of saying things , "this is not an opinion, it is a fact".
The problem is that many of the things I was taught in school as FACTS 30 years later are "proved" not to be so clear cut.
Most modern scientists usually say something like " seems like it's this way, but we will need to investigate this more to make sure"

[Im_me]

My own background is in vision science...

It is possible to make pretty objective measurements of things like contrast and reflectivity, though:

1) Nobody here has actually done so, as far as I recall
2) As has been pointed out, there may be between-batch and between-model differences, which means that without testing a reasonable number of units we should be cautious in making generalisations.

I think some people here have been reading too much philosophy of science though. Of course it is logically true that nothing is truly certain. But see the 'Hitchhiker's guide' for a fine example of where we might end up if we actually behaved as if that were true (the ruler of the universe who only believes in what he can see, which sometimes includes his cat). Ereaders would not have got invented, if their makers had questioned too many of their assumptions.

[richman]

yeah you are on the same page as me, you are saying investigate and question everything, and hold on to the best, but always OPEN to new ways of doing stuff.
I was just commenting on DrMoze "all or nothing" type reasoning.
Quantum Physic's redefined everything we thought we knew about science and made all of us step back and wonder if "it's a wave" or "it's a particle" , it states it does depend on the observer. So for DrMoze it could be just as he see's it, and the 2 other people that made the opposite claim as him, could be right too.
Seems to me , the bottom line is how each person see's it, if 10 people see that the 505 has better black/white contrast , and 2 people see the 300 as better ,and 20 people see them as the same. Well , all that matters is that each person buys the one that feels BEST for them.

[HarryT]

There are objective statements, however, that one can certainly make, such as "there is only a single supplier of 5" eInk screens, and they are all made on the same production line, in the same factory". And from such statements one can draw conclusions as to whether or not they are all likely to look the same or not.

[richman]

I don't know if the 5 inch screens and the 6 inch screens were made at same time or if each company adds or changes things that could impact slight differences in these ereaders. I don't know. It could be that they can slightly turn down the contrast at the expense of darker background. Most machines do have slight adjustments that can be made, also new and improve processes, and different batches could have been made slightly different.
It seemed that 6inch screens could be slightly different that 5 inch screens, and that is just what we are comparing in this thread. We are still investigating this and there seems to conflicting viewpoints from people that own these devices , it's something that should be looked into further.
Now if the manufacturer told us that between the dates of 10/08-12/08 same process, same company, then then we got new batch in and different company requested slight adjustment on background color being more white, and making the black not as black, that could be true. Since our computer screens have that ability , turn up one feature turns the other down to the same degree.

[smoke]

well, after playing around with a new 600, i've gotta admit i'm rather disappointed. i think it's a step up from my kindle 2, but not as good as i was led to believe. i need to read pdf documents, and as someone stated earlier, they still haven't figured out how to get it right. it would be okay if the zoom function stayed on when changing pages, but it doesn't. whoever thought *that* up should be taken outside and shot. i've gotta believe that a software update would fix this, but what do i know? pdf's are still readable, but it's a lot of work; not what i expected. still, it's better than the k2. i just expected this to be closer to a mature concept than it is. ebooks are still in their adolescent stage, though, i guess

oh, and it's not possible to get a google book onto my mac and into the reader. so much for the 'free book' concept

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by smoke

well, after playing around with a new 600, i've gotta admit i'm rather disappointed. i think it's a step up from my kindle 2, but not as good as i was led to believe. i need to read pdf documents, and as someone stated earlier, they still haven't figured out how to get it right. it would be okay if the zoom function stayed on when changing pages, but it doesn't. whoever thought *that* up should be taken outside and shot. i've gotta believe that a software update would fix this, but what do i know? pdf's are still readable, but it's a lot of work; not what i expected. still, it's better than the k2. i just expected this to be closer to a mature concept than it is. ebooks are still in their adolescent stage, though, i guess

oh, and it's not possible to get a google book onto my mac and into the reader. so much for the 'free book' concept

True Kindle DRM books can't be read on the 600, but there are tons of books in epub format from project guttenberg, google books, booksonboard etc. See the wiki here for more places.