How much would you pay for a classics subscription?

[vividread]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

Honestly I doubt most parents would shell out that much for this service when any tablet can get public domain books for free.

You’re aiming at an extremely niche market which is already saturated with options from bigger and arguably more dependable sources. They will after all have dev teams to work on their app while you’re just one person.

You’re also fighting against laziness which is a proven benefit to ereaders and tablets with built in ebook services. People generally look for the most immediate option.

And before folks here jump on that with “I don’t”, MR folks aren’t typical ereaders. We’re the fanatics.

Quite fine point IMO - thanks!

[kyteflyer]

There is no way I would pay for what I can already get for free, from those sources already names. Seriously, not only would I not pay, I would *never* go for a subscription model. Ever.

[barryem]

Most free ebooks are put together by volunteers who are willing to spend their time and a bit of money to make sure there are free books available. I personally am offended that someone wants to use the product of their effort to make money.

I've seen this before. In the early days of old time radio collecting and sharing on the internet a lot of us retired guys put a lot of work into locating old shows, cleaning them up and sharing them for free. Then a few people joined our groups for the purpose of getting our shows and selling collections of them on CD on Ebay and on the web.

I'm sorry there are people in this world who want to make money on the backs of volunteers. It's a pretty sad thing.

Barry

[haertig]

In order to successfully sell something that can otherwise be easily had for free, you need to add value.

I hate to say it, but selling something by subscription only, that you cannot download (meaning you have to be online to read it?), that requires a custom app supported by only one person (and only available on a subset of devices), to read a custom book format that you designed and nobody else uses - is not "adding value". It is subtracting from it.

I have no doubt you are a talented programmer. However, I would recommend targeting some different area that is not already well established like ebooks are. A new eBook format is not needed, and would only have a chance of succeeding if it was pushed by an industry giant - like Apple or Microsoft or Google or Amazon. The chance of a single individual developing a new format that anybody but the most naive would actually use, is zilch. Even when the big guys are pushing a new format, the consumers don't want it. Rather, it is being forced on them for some other reason - like to enable some harder to defeat DRM most likely. Even the big guys face strong headwinds when trying to force that down consumers throats.

Sorry, I don't mean to stomp on your dream. But your efforts would be better directed at a totally different area than you appear to be going after here.

[vividread]

Originally Posted by barryem

Most free ebooks are put together by volunteers who are willing to spend their time and a bit of money to make sure there are free books available. I personally am offended that someone wants to use the product of their effort to make money.

I've seen this before. In the early days of old time radio collecting and sharing on the internet a lot of us retired guys put a lot of work into locating old shows, cleaning them up and sharing them for free. Then a few people joined our groups for the purpose of getting our shows and selling collections of them on CD on Ebay and on the web.

I'm sorry there are people in this world who want to make money on the backs of volunteers. It's a pretty sad thing.

Barry

While I have very much respect for the work of volunteers, this is rather harsh and non-pragmatic take on my idea and the post.

- The fact that certain content is in PD means it's made open by its creator, or the governing legislative body of a democratic government that represents him/her. This clearly means that rights of a creator - the highest rights (higher than formatters / distributors / volunteers) - have been marginalized in exchange for better discoverability + sharing of knowledge.

If my app makes an African kid aware about Alice in Wonderland in a free trial + cancellation (where I will be losing money for), why should a volunteer have problem? Taking a higher moral ground than the creator or lawmakers is something that doesn't suit volunteers, at least for the sake of the purpose here. (of discoverability)

- I haven't made any mention of which PD source I might use i.e. which volunteer's work I will be making money off of.

Gutenberg exists since 70s, and I simply adore their love for plaintext format - in the sense that it makes it forever extensible. It suits me because it allows me to roll out my own format. If I don't succeed, I will take a hit for sure, but that's my risk.

Given the competition in the space as many contributors have mentioned here, I will have to try really really hard to make myself break-even, given all the costs involved with subscription model.

This, in light of the fact that my competitors (Publishers + Amazon) are selling super-popular PD works for $ even on Kindle on per title basis, wherein I will be selling them bunched together as monthly subscription.

While I can credit them for all the formatting those publishers might have done, I wouldn't be getting anything readymade from Mobilereads or Gutenberg that I could make money off of 2-clicks.

If creativity at scale is something one could hack via a machine (which they are already trying to do), formatting is not even a drop in the ocean.

Volunteers like those in MR will keep the flame alive for PD works, sure, but the overall writing industry will take massive hit, and our children will have hard time understanding how knowledge is passed down every generation.

So while I totally agree I could go bankrupt the next day this is launched (due to no added value risk), I am also simply providing one more option in the market filled with megaliths making money off of authors' who died 150 years ago. Whether I use someone's formatted work is of totally negligible value here. (not that I intend to do it)

[vividread]

Originally Posted by haertig

In order to successfully sell something that can otherwise be easily had for free, you need to add value.

I hate to say it, but selling something by subscription only, that you cannot download (meaning you have to be online to read it?), that requires a custom app supported by only one person (and only available on a subset of devices), to read a custom book format that you designed and nobody else uses - is not "adding value". It is subtracting from it.

I have no doubt you are a talented programmer. However, I would recommend targeting some different area that is not already well established like ebooks are. A new eBook format is not needed, and would only have a chance of succeeding if it was pushed by an industry giant - like Apple or Microsoft or Google or Amazon. The chance of a single individual developing a new format that anybody but the most naive would actually use, is zilch. Even when the big guys are pushing a new format, the consumers don't want it. Rather, it is being forced on them for some other reason - like to enable some harder to defeat DRM most likely. Even the big guys face strong headwinds when trying to force that down consumers throats.

Sorry, I don't mean to stomp on your dream. But your efforts would be better directed at a totally different area than you appear to be going after here.

Thank you so much for your candid feedback!

As for the format question, I am still not sure (and knowledgeable enough) if sharing is of so much value to a reader. How many people are likely to share an eBook with friends that they bought with money?

Of course people on MR are an enthusiastic community but how much of the world does it represent? Is everyone who is a classic enthusiast also a PD enthusiast? Are they more likely to be on MR than they are not?

By all means here I want to avoid a confirmation bias and nothing else...

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by vividread

Thank you so much for your candid feedback!

As for the format question, I am still not sure (and knowledgeable enough) if sharing is of so much value to a reader. How many people are likely to share an eBook with friends that they bought with money?

Of course people on MR are an enthusiastic community but how much of the world does it represent? Is everyone who is a classic enthusiast also a PD enthusiast? Are they more likely to be on MR than they are not?

By all means here I want to avoid a confirmation bias and nothing else...

Think of it this way, my mother used to share pBooks for bought with my sister and some friends. How is that any different then sharing an eBook with others that you know won't put it out there on the net?

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by vividread

- The fact that certain content is in PD means it's made open by its creator, or the governing legislative body of a democratic government that represents him/her. This clearly means that rights of a creator - the highest rights (higher than formatters / distributors / volunteers) - have been marginalized in exchange for better discoverability + sharing of knowledge.

An interesting take on the expiry of copyright. I take it you feel that copyright should be in perpetuity? For example, a book written 140 years ago where the author has long since died and there are no known heirs should not be freely available since that would marginalize the rights of the the creator.

Originally Posted by vividread

If my app makes an African kid aware about Alice in Wonderland in a free trial + cancellation (where I will be losing money for), why should a volunteer have problem? Taking a higher moral ground than the creator or lawmakers is something that doesn't suit volunteers, at least for the sake of the purpose here. (of discoverability)

I have no issues with what you are attempting. I do have strong doubts as to whether it will be successful.

Originally Posted by vividread

Volunteers like those in MR will keep the flame alive for PD works, sure, but the overall writing industry will take massive hit, and our children will have hard time understanding how knowledge is passed down every generation.

So far it would appear that the traditional publishing industry is taking a hit but the self-publishing industry is doing well. There are quite a few people/companies already keeping the "classics" alive. That does seem to be a rather small pool with some large frogs already dwelling in it.

Originally Posted by vividread

So while I totally agree I could go bankrupt the next day this is launched (due to no added value risk), I am also simply providing one more option in the market filled with megaliths making money off of authors' who died 150 years ago. Whether I use someone's formatted work is of totally negligible value here. (not that I intend to do it)

I wish you the best of luck. However the lack of an archivable format is a deal breaker to me. I have unfond memories of purchasing ebooks that would have been rendered unreadable when the publisher ranging from companies such as Microsoft down to 1 person operations dropped the ebook business, went bankrupt, whatever. If I can't remove the DRM and save a copy on my hardware, my money stays in my pocket.

"A cursory assessment of the manuscript’s sales appeal, however, convinced us that dollarwise the thing would be better employed as tinder for the library fireplace."—Bored of the Rings

[vividread]

Originally Posted by DNSB

An interesting take on the expiry of copyright. I take it you feel that copyright should be in perpetuity? For example, a book written 140 years ago where the author has long since died and there are no known heirs should not be freely available since that would marginalize the rights of the the creator.

No, I mean that if creators let go off their rights, volunteer formatters should refrain from becoming moral police for PD works.

Originally Posted by DNSB

So far it would appear that the traditional publishing industry is taking a hit but the self-publishing industry is doing well. There are quite a few people/companies already keeping the "classics" alive. That does seem to be a rather small pool with some large frogs already dwelling in it.

Good point - though I am yet to hear a big number of self published writers claiming they are doing well. They usually feel Amazon is ripping them off with ad money.

Originally Posted by DNSB

I wish you the best of luck. However the lack of an archivable format is a deal breaker to me. I have unfond memories of purchasing ebooks that would have been rendered unreadable when the publisher ranging from companies such as Microsoft down to 1 person operations dropped the ebook business, went bankrupt, whatever. If I can't remove the DRM and save a copy on my hardware, my money stays in my pocket.

Thanks for the wishes.
That's an interesting piece feedback. I will consider a popular friendly format then.

[vividread]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Think of it this way, my mother used to share pBooks for bought with my sister and some friends. How is that any different then sharing an eBook with others that you know won't put it out there on the net?

Fair points!

[pdurrant]

I recommend you consider your business model in comparison to say, Delphi Classics.

[vividread]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

I recommend you consider your business model in comparison to say, Delphi Classics.

Sure, I take a look. Thanks!

[II2II]

Originally Posted by vividread

My original target was children who have just learned to read, but do not take off because of some inherent barriers in reading habits and reading training.

You would probably be better off seeing what is already on the market, then figure out how you can add value to what already exists. Also consider who your target market is (the people who pay) when deciding how you are going to add value. Parents may be tough since you have to get your message to a broad audience and create something that appeals to a broad audience, teachers and tutors may be easier to target and more willing to pay for something out of pocket that genuinely meets their needs. Institutional purchases are a notoriously tough nut to crack. If you are unable to generate unique content yourself, you may want to consider creating something for authors (i.e. license the software and content creation tools to authors who create, market, and sell their own titles through the Apple and Play stores).

[crossi]

nothing. classics I can get from the library/