Actual status of multi-platform annotations and highlights synchronization

[franksisco]

Hi all, I'd like to buy my first ebook reader, a Kobo to be precise, but I'm held back by not really understanding how annotations and highlights are currently manageable outside these devices.
It's essential to me to get annotations and highlights made on Kobo even in the desktop/pc environmen and to be able to edit them on both platforms and then synchronize them.

Unfortunately, reading older posts on this and other forums I think I understood that there is no solution yet..

• My beloved Calibre can import these things from Kobo devices but it can't show them on its viewer except in a separate column. It also cannot return them to the ereader once they have been modified.

• Kobo Desktop and the Kobo environment in general seems to have synchronization problems and delays, and I haven't even figured out if it allows to synchronize side loaded ebooks not purchased in the Kobo Store.... In that case it is unusable for me.

• I have seen there are various free tools that allow you to extract this data from Kobo devices but again they only work in Kobo > PC direction and not Kobo > PC > Kobo.. as I would like.

So... as I said I think there is no a solution at the moment.... That's why, I wanted to open a post to figure out what the news and updates are on the issue.

Is there any news from Kobo on multi-platform management/secronization of this data? Are there any new free tools, perhaps open source, to achieve this? Is there any news in general about the developing of a common metadata protocol that would make it easier to manage, share and synchronize annotations and highlights across platforms?

Until you give me good news I will not buy my Kobo ereader....

[embryo]

Not for the default reader, but for KOReader perhaps KOHighlights can help you...

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by franksisco

Until you give me good news I will not buy my Kobo ereader....

Then you are not buying a Kobo eReader.

Kobo fully supports syncing of annotations within their apps and devices for books purchased from them. You can add or edit annotations on any of these places and the should sync to the the other apps/devices. And, as far as I can tell, this is roughly the same for all the manufacturers and app coder. The only extra is that for Kindle, if you email a book to the device, annotations will be synced for these books as well.

Going outside of this is a problem. There is little if anything happening between un-alike apps/devices. There are some basic problems such as there being no standards for doing this. But, I think the biggest reason is that not enough people would actually use it to make anyone that has to write and maintain the code care enough to do it. People will say it is that Amazon, Kobo and the like just want to keep people inside their walled gardens. That will be part of it, but, from my experience, the amount of people actually using annotations is small enough that it probably isn't worthwhile with the other issues.

There are tools to export the annotations to some other formats. Most of them produce text or HTML versions of the annotations and do not integrate with the book or a viewer. Again, this is due partly to standards, but also to just how difficult it is to do. Linking a marked bit of text in one format and reader to another format and reader is not necessarily easy. If only epub was involved, then it gets easier. But, it is only "easy" if exactly the same book is being used everywhere.

[franksisco]

I agree that the central problem is the lack of a common standard for the management of metadata such as these, but not on the fact that there are too few people with my needs.. Literally every "human" ebook reader I know, at least the ones who study books and not just read them, have said to me at least once, "Yes ebook readers are cool but I switched from Kindle to Kobo and lost all my notes" , "... it's cool but I would like to see the highlights also on pc, edit them and see them on the reader..", "It's cool but until they will not improve the management of highlights and notes I'm going on with paper.."
And while I was looking for information on the subject I came across dozens of posts in various forums saying the same things.

Anyway... to follow the purpose I had given myself, and that is to take stock of the situation.... Right now the possible solutions are only:

• Use Kobo devices and its realtive desktop/mobile apps exclusively with ebooks purchased on its store.

• Use cross-platform applications with this function like Google Books, Fbreader and Pocketbook.

• or try a solution a bit laborious but effective install android applications not cross-platform, but with at least the synchronization via cloud, on the PC via android emulators. Personally I'm happily using this solution with Moon+ Reader Pro, my favorite ereading application ever.

[franksisco]

I agree the central problem is the lack of a standard protocol for managing metadata like this but not that there are few with my needs. All the "human" ebook readers I know, at least those who study ebooks and not only read them, have told me at least once: "The ebook reader is cool but I switched from Kindle to Kobo and I lost all my annotations.." - ...Cool but I can't see highlights of sideloaded epubs on my pc..." - "...Until they will not improve annotation/highlights management I'll go on with paper"...

Anyway, what I wanted was to have a clearer and up-to-date idea of what is possible right now regarding this issue. If there should be any news I hope someone will come here and say it. In summary:

• As for ereaders devices like Kobo or Kindle, cross-platform syncing of sideloaded ebooks purchased outside of their stores is not yet possible.

• As for mobile apps, the only ones I know that have cross-platfrom highlights/annotation sicronization are: Google Books, Pocketbook and Fbreader (at least according to what Fbreader says. I tried it and it doesn't work).

• A DIY alternative is to install on pc mobile-only apps, with at least cloud sychronization of annotations and highlights, using android emulators or Windows Subsystem for Android. I am currently using this trick with Moon+ Reader Pro with much satisfaction and I consider it the best and most efficient solution for me at the moment.

[MGlitch]

Are none of those people coders, couldn't one of them who is then look in to making what you and they and all these people want?

I think David is correct, the demand isn't sufficient, else we'd have seen someone capitalize on it.

[Uncle Robin]

All the "human" ebook readers I know, at least those who study ebooks and not only read them, have told me at least once

And what is that sample size? The fact that a majority or plurality of members of a niche group of readers want a feature does not mean that ENOUGH people want it to make it worth anyone's while. To paraphrase Heinlein TANSTAAFC-PE-RNSA

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

And what is that sample size? The fact that a majority or plurality of members of a niche group of readers want a feature does not mean that ENOUGH people want it to make it worth anyone's while. To paraphrase Heinlein TANSTAAFC-PE-RNSA

And the phrasing of the claim, "at least those who study ebooks and not only read them", suggests that more of the people that @franksisco knows that read ebooks don't want it than do. If that wasn't the case, then the caveat would not have been needed.

@franksisco: My post was intended to say that there was nothing available and give reasons for it. Your post was asking for details of any changes in the status of annotation syncing, and honestly, if there were, you would have found them. While I think it is something that relatively few people want, those that do want it would discuss it if it changed.

But, you have missed one way to do it. Calibre. The calibre server can allow you to annotate books read in the browser. You can access them from any browser that can get to your calibre install.

[franksisco]

That phrase just meant that those who study books have more need to annotate and highlight than those who just read.... And the people I know, as well as many others around forums like this, find it inconvenient to do it on a ebook reader. We are certainly talking about a minority but not as small as it looks. We're not The Annotations Sect. However, sure, this doesn't mean that what we are interested in should be the standard for everyone. I just wanted to say that ereading is not at its peak, it's destined to evolve a lot and I'm pretty sure that before long a common standard for annotation/highlight sharing and synchronization among different devices will be an integral part of this technology.
As I said I'm pretty sure but I can definitely be dead wrong..

Originally Posted by davidfor

...But, you have missed one way to do it. Calibre. The calibre server can allow you to annotate books read in the browser. You can access them from any browser that can get to your calibre install.

Yes you are right, I know this possibility but I didn't mention it because it's limited to a device connected to the same server network. Anyway I admit I only have superficial knowledge of this feature so I ask: is it possible to leave the Calibre server network, for example, leaving home and going elsewhere to read, highlight, annotate and at later time sync with Calibre once back under its network?

[Quoth]

For me the entire point of an ereader used for proofing or study is annotation on the reader and then copy that to laptop via Kobo Utilities on Calibre. Then edit original document on a wordprocessor. I've no interest ever on reading the annotations on a different ereader and rarely any interest in re-reading on the device unless it's study material, in which case the Elipsa and PDF with scribbled visible in document notes are sometimes useful. I do that with some equipment manuals.

Calibre does all I ever need. It and ebooks have saved over 5000 pages of paper.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by franksisco

Yes you are right, I know this possibility but I didn't mention it because it's limited to a device connected to the same server network. Anyway I admit I only have superficial knowledge of this feature so I ask: is it possible to leave the Calibre server network, for example, leaving home and going elsewhere to read, highlight, annotate and at later time sync with Calibre once back under its network?

As with any server, it is possible to extend the access outside of the local network. It involves configuring the router/firewall/gateway device/modem to forward the ports from outside the network. It is a common topic and exactly how you do it depends on the devices involved. Details that are specific to calibre are discussed in the calibre forum, but, most of the difficulties are elsewhere.

[franksisco]

Thanks davidfor this is interesting