What are we missing? The difference in reader appps

1611mac · 04-08-2011, 08:48 PM

I've been converting some pdf's into ePubs lately. These eBooks will be sold so I've been viewing them with as many reader apps as possible to see how they display. I was shocked at the difference between readers.....

The same ePub file produces such different results...

Some reader apps show Chapter sub-heads, some do not. Some don't show the book cover page (first page) some do, for some reason one wouldn't display an inline pic if it came before a Chapter head. One app shows chapter heads centered even if specified flush left, others don't...... etc, etc, etc,

I used to do web sites and was always frustrated that browsers show the same html code differently. Design a beautiful page and it looks awful in a different browser... Now eBook apps do the same thing!

How in the world does a "designer" (formatter) take into account the differences in all the readers???

Just pondering...... Comments?

ATDrake · 04-08-2011, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1611mac

How in the world does a "designer" (formatter) take into account the differences in all the readers???

Personally, I say don't bother. Just get your book legible without visible text errors and laid out so that it's decently readable no matter what device/app people use.

If some of the hardware/software happens to be able to show nicer formatting than others (better CSS support or whatever), then that's a pleasant extra.

But like gracefully degrading backwards-compatible websites, don't try to code to meet any particular reader's quirks, much less drive yourself to distraction trying to make things look the same on all.

Just give the reader a good basic experience with maybe a few extra formatting niceties (embedded fonts, drop-caps via CSS) thrown in for the stuff which supports it.

Also, regardless of how reader apps look, a lot of the ePub supporting actual devices use ADE, which seems to be kind of consistent in its rendering (judging by how people complain about working around its quirks in the ePub forum).

JSWolf · 04-08-2011, 09:06 PM

Why do you start with a PDF file to convert to ePub. That's extremely poor workmanship. In order to make sure the conversion is perfect, you have to A/B compare the PDF and ePub. That means every word, every letter, every punctuation mark, every place there should be a style, every line, every paragraph. It's tedious. Not worth it.

Anyway, you should be using Adobe Digital Editions to look at your ePub and if it looks good, then it's the fault of the other programs. For example, I have an eBook that looks fine with ADE on the desktop and on the Sony Reader. But on an iPad using iBooks, the first line of every chapter has a gap between the line and the next line in the paragraph because of the drop cap. I fix this with a line-height of 0 in the CSS and ADE works. iBooks seems to ignore this and there is a gap.

So unless it's ADE, it's a bug in the program like Stanza is buggy. iBooks is buggy. So do not beat yourself up about your ePub no looking good in some programs.

But before you worry about how it looks, worry about how it converted. get to A/B comparing everything from the smallest period to every line and every paragraph. There is NO PROGRAM that will convert your PDF to ePub without introducing errors. And even ligatures can be a problem if the program that converted outputted them.

1611mac · 04-08-2011, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Why do you start with a PDF file to convert to ePub. That's extremely poor workmanship.

I should have said "PDF and HTML" - in some instances a PDF is the only thing available..

Some of this is scans of works from the late 1600's and 1700's.... I don't think they had word processors back then...

DiapDealer · 04-08-2011, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Anyway, you should be using Adobe Digital Editions to look at your ePub and if it looks good, then it's the fault of the other programs.

Everybody has to cater to ADE's quirks (and there are many) because it's the most dominant, but let's not pretend that ADE is right and everything else is buggy.

Smallcaps anyone?

elcreative · 04-09-2011, 11:02 AM

No thanks, need medium or it looks silly on my head...

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Smallcaps anyone?

benham · 04-09-2011, 12:41 PM

Interesting discussion. Does the display have more to do with the ereader app or the conversion?

Jellby · 04-10-2011, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So unless it's ADE, it's a bug in the program like Stanza is buggy. iBooks is buggy. So do not beat yourself up about your ePub no looking good in some programs.

ADE is buggy too.

JSWolf · 04-21-2011, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellby

ADE is buggy too.

But iBooks is even more buggy. Way way more buggy.

chrisanthropic · 04-21-2011, 02:12 PM

My method has been to start with an extremely simple html template, add the story to it, and add as little "hard" formatting as possible so that each device can do it's thing. While it doesn't provide the most consistent results, it does provide results that are consistently good for most devices it's on.

Of course, I'm fairly new to all of this and the number of devices I test is limited to half a dozen or so.

Hellmark · 04-22-2011, 04:19 AM

The big thing to keep in mind, is how strict are you following the ePub spec? Much like with HTML, you can have so much variance and the further away from spec you get the more likely you'll have issues. Yes, you'll still have some differences between renderers, but, they'll be small.

04-08-2011, 08:48 PM	#1
1611mac eWanderer Posts: 523 Karma: 1441998 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: NC, USA Device: iMac,iPad3,iPhone5-Kindle Fire,Touch,PaperWhite	What are we missing? The difference in reader appps I've been converting some pdf's into ePubs lately. These eBooks will be sold so I've been viewing them with as many reader apps as possible to see how they display. I was shocked at the difference between readers..... The same ePub file produces such different results... Some reader apps show Chapter sub-heads, some do not. Some don't show the book cover page (first page) some do, for some reason one wouldn't display an inline pic if it came before a Chapter head. One app shows chapter heads centered even if specified flush left, others don't...... etc, etc, etc, I used to do web sites and was always frustrated that browsers show the same html code differently. Design a beautiful page and it looks awful in a different browser... Now eBook apps do the same thing! How in the world does a "designer" (formatter) take into account the differences in all the readers??? Just pondering...... Comments?

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04-08-2011, 09:06 PM	#3
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,897 Karma: 128597114 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Why do you start with a PDF file to convert to ePub. That's extremely poor workmanship. In order to make sure the conversion is perfect, you have to A/B compare the PDF and ePub. That means every word, every letter, every punctuation mark, every place there should be a style, every line, every paragraph. It's tedious. Not worth it. Anyway, you should be using Adobe Digital Editions to look at your ePub and if it looks good, then it's the fault of the other programs. For example, I have an eBook that looks fine with ADE on the desktop and on the Sony Reader. But on an iPad using iBooks, the first line of every chapter has a gap between the line and the next line in the paragraph because of the drop cap. I fix this with a line-height of 0 in the CSS and ADE works. iBooks seems to ignore this and there is a gap. So unless it's ADE, it's a bug in the program like Stanza is buggy. iBooks is buggy. So do not beat yourself up about your ePub no looking good in some programs. But before you worry about how it looks, worry about how it converted. get to A/B comparing everything from the smallest period to every line and every paragraph. There is NO PROGRAM that will convert your PDF to ePub without introducing errors. And even ligatures can be a problem if the program that converted outputted them.

04-09-2011, 12:41 PM	#7
benham Guru Posts: 882 Karma: 5565888 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Townsend, WI Device: Palm TX, PRS-505 (BLUE)	Interesting discussion. Does the display have more to do with the ereader app or the conversion?

04-21-2011, 02:12 PM	#10
chrisanthropic Fiend Posts: 148 Karma: 559930 Join Date: Apr 2011 Device: none	My method has been to start with an extremely simple html template, add the story to it, and add as little "hard" formatting as possible so that each device can do it's thing. While it doesn't provide the most consistent results, it does provide results that are consistently good for most devices it's on. Of course, I'm fairly new to all of this and the number of devices I test is limited to half a dozen or so.

04-22-2011, 04:19 AM	#11
Hellmark Wizard Posts: 2,549 Karma: 3799999 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: O'Fallon, Missouri, USA Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3	The big thing to keep in mind, is how strict are you following the ePub spec? Much like with HTML, you can have so much variance and the further away from spec you get the more likely you'll have issues. Yes, you'll still have some differences between renderers, but, they'll be small.